I understand if you don’t want to go into detail here – “read the book” is a fair answer! – but can you say anything here about how
you psychologically overpowered your abductor? Did you learn anything in so doing that you could apply in later life, or principles that could help others? (I am assuming that helping others is a huge impetus for writing this book).There is a funny part during a terrible part where I am thinking very seriously about getting the gun. Being from Canada, where there is a lot of paperwork for a hunter to get a hunting rifle, I reasoned with myself: “Look, let’s be realistic here. Even if you got the gun, you wouldn’t know how to use it. There is that big silencer that you aren’t even sure is a silencer, and have you heard of something called ‘a safety’?”(Victim 42). Maybe if I had known how to use a gun (I knew where it was), I would have gone with my idea of getting the gun (I had the opportunity, a pretty grim opportunity, but an opportunity nonetheless). However, because I had no idea of how to use the gun, I opted for psychologically overpowering him.
I don’t know if I learned anything about how strong and smart I was that I could apply later in life. (I learned what a power drug adrenaline is, though). I have been told, for example, in one endorsement that I survived the unthinkable and another that I took what would break most people and turned it into triumph. I don’t know if that’s true. I am not another person. I was lucky in that I don’t think the serial rapist who happened to abduct me had killed yet. But he did leave the victim after me (his final victim) for dead and I found out 28 years later that, along with the gun, he’d had brass knuckles in the vehicle. But for some reason, he didn’t use them on me.
However, what I did learn or gain or acquire is an embodied and psychic awareness and knowledge of a system based on exploitation. You can know that theoretically; however, once you have lived through it, you know acutely what needs to be revolutionized. Yes, perhaps ironically, I became a revolutionary after the abduction. However, this is not uncommon. Many people who have survived and embodied extreme violence end up committing their lives to helping others and dismantling a top down way of being (hierarchy) that needs to exploit in order to exist. The same ideological system of greed and taking that has raped me in my life (the abduction was not the only time) also rapes the earth through an extraction economy.
However, I also state in the book, “I certainly wouldn’t wish my particular form of initiation into the realm of righteous anger on anyone else, but this is a good anger, a healthy anger, an anger that motivates.” (Victim 145)
Tell me about the “hero” award. I haven’t heard about that before…?Yes, I will be presented with “Ellie Liston Hero of the Year Award” on the last stop of my US tour in Ventura, California on April 28th when I read and present during National Crime Victims’ Week. Ventura is where the trial was held in 1996 and John Lennihan was given a life sentence. Even though I was the one who caught him (not in terms of a net or a leg hold trap or running up behind him and bonking him over the head which I definitely would have liked to have been able to do), I never had my own trial. I was the key witness in two other victims’ trials, the main case being for the woman he left for dead. Because of the extremity of what he did to her, the case became homicide. If it had only been about what he did to me (merely numerous rapes, strangling, being hit and threatened with a deadly weapon), he may not have even been convicted. In the 90s, my ‘complaint’ may very well have been proclaimed ‘unfounded’ as so many others were and still are. I write about this (I don’t think I leave anything out) and any potential cracks in my arguments are sealed up with over 270 endnotes.
Are you able to win over most people to the idea that, as you use it, the term “victim” can be one of empowerment? Have you encountered any particularly defensive, hostile, challenging or otherwise interesting reactions to that idea? I have definitely encountered defensive and hostile reactions to the use of the term/reality ‘victim’ and especially as the title for the book. The title has always been
Victim, ever since I started thinking of making something out of the story. This is because victimization in patriarchal hierarchy—which guarantees exploitation—is inevitable.
One woman every 17 minutes is raped in Canada, one woman every 2 minutes in the US, and one woman every 18 seconds in Mexico—and it’s been estimated that a good 50% go unreported... and this is ‘just’ talking about rapes of women. What about the sexual abuse of men and predominantly boy-children? It has been estimated that 1 in 33 men has experienced an attempted or complete rape in their lifetime and studies between 1996 and 2005 found that 14.2-16.4% and 64% of females had been sexually abused before the age of 18. The majority of sexual assault and abuse are of still women and girls; however, we cannot leave out the men and especially the boys. Regardless of sex or gender, the motive for rape is always the exploitation of another human.
Victim is a reality, and the exploitation and power abuse extends beyond the human. It cannot be denied, so we have to look at it. And, as I argue in the book, because—especially according to the statistic that 64% of females had been sexually abused before the age of 18 from 1996-2005—the majority of females and many men already have an embodied knowledge of injustice and, in that sense, we are all already warriors. We already have the majority.
I also talk about experiences and things I have learned in Mexico about victimization, vigilance and not forgetting that which victimized us so that it won’t happen again. I say: “I must not attempt to erase the scars of my victimization: I must have the strength to honour them. So that they won’t happen again.” (Victim 144)
‘Victim’ is not as simple as mere empowerment. It is more like reality. And I don’t really like the word ‘empowerment.’ It reminds me of superficial self-help books that don’t go into any detail of what we are empowering ourselves from or against or to be. Without deep understanding, empowerment can support the enemy. If we think of what Koa Beck designates as ‘white feminists’ (even though my skin is white, I found out, thankfully, a quarter of a way into
her book by the same name, that I am not one), white feminists (and the woman doesn’t have to be ‘white’ to be one) empower themselves by striving for what ‘successful’ men in patriarchy have: the ability to abuse power and individually profit. The ability to victimize.
I am complicating the term and reality of "victim." And, those who resist my title—and many will—I really hope will read the book. I challenge them to.
However, as I say in the book, regardless if the ubiquitous reality of victimization and guarantee of exploitation in Western patriarchal hierarchy: “we don’t have to be abducted and raped to know this: we just have to look around and care for others beyond ourselves.” (Victim 36). What is needed is an ideological revolution from individualism to empathy. It is obvious that this system doesn’t work if we care to look around and feel and get beyond ourselves. I said in
a recent interview with Massy Arts, the rape of a child you know and the rape of a child you don’t are equally unforgiveable. And, I would add, it is worth raging about and fighting against the fact that these atrocities are happening all of the time, especially in the so-called third world where children are sold to first world men for $3000 because they haven’t been violated—read "raped"—yet, and their as of yet unsullied state and innocence is perhaps the ultimate act of power abuse.
After their young bodies have been used, their value in the sex tourism market progressively decreases. By the time they are a young woman, they are worth sometimes as low as $3 per rape. This happens. Mexican journalist
Lydia Cacho writes a lot about this from her investigations.
You and I share an interest in rape-revenge films and horror films – as a feminist, do you have a favourite? Rape revenge films are often regarded as a kind of morally dubious/ suspect/ exploitive genre – do you agree with that? What would you like to see in a horror movie about patriarchy? (If your story were made into a film, what do you worry might get changed or altered?).So you know, I am not interested in horror films. I am not interested in any form of gratuitous violence. Even though it’s what I fight against, I am not interested in violence. I wish I didn’t have to pay any attention to it at all. I also find horror films boring because you know how they are going to end even before they start: a group of naïve soon-to-be victims are soon-to-be brutalized usually by being sliced up in some way. The soon-to-be victims typically have little to no character development so the viewer doesn’t connect to them and, therefore, we don’t mind much that they are brutalized by the charismatic serial killer anti-hero. Who is talked about and remains a part of popular culture? The serial killer. ‘Freddy’ comes to mind. Do we remember any of his victims? I have never heard anyone talk about them. Because of the centralization of that which brutalizes and murders (in horror films and in Western patriarchy), this tendency reinforces exploitation and violence. Perhaps I am not an expert in the horror genre—I did research
Texas Chainsaw Massacre (the original) for my
Lethe project years ago, and that certainly was a part of the pattern I just described. Also all of the other mainstream horror movies—maybe there is more to it and the cult, underground films actually deconstruct themselves. However, those in the mainstream, which have the largest audiences and ideological influence, reinforce everything that I fight against.
However, yes, I do enjoy rape revenge. It’s my favorite genre! But not all. I don’t enjoy gratuitous violence and over-simplified, reductionist, characters (in that sense, the selection is quite small). The 2017 movie
Revenge by Coralie Fargeat is a rape revenge film, although I read somewhere that the director doesn’t think of it as such. She was going more for the over-the-top special effects a la Tarantino with blood spurting like a hose (hoses probably were used) that it’s so outrageous and virtually baroque (so it’s kind of beautiful in a way). We do not connect with the main character, she who wields semi-automatic revenge at the end—or I didn’t anyway. And she is incredibly hot so objectified once again as her physical feminine perfection is sexy and sullied with mud and little to no clothing. This film gets nowhere in terms of revolutionizing the victim, and I don’t think the Fargeat cared if it did. Even though the men are idiots and we don’t mind them being killed, it is pure sensationalism.
However, the rape revenge film that is in my opinion pure rape revenge is Emerald Fennel’s
Promising Young Woman. I say it’s pure rape revenge because it’s real. It is taken from reality. Yes, I very much admire
I Spit on your Grave, and the main character Jennifer Hills is a well-developed, complex character (which all victims are. We are all human and, therefore, complex). However, it is fantasy in the sense that she is able to kill all four men who gang raped her. Unfortunately, I don’t think this would ever happen. However, the story of
Promising Young Woman could. The main character Cassie, played by Carey Mulligan, is absolutely developed. We love her. Fennell’s film complexifies the whole reality of rape and privilege in patriarchy (the power to rape and the impunity of rapists, especially those of the upper classes). It talks about victim-blaming, internalized victim-blaming where the victim blames herself. It talks about PTSD and, it is not an all-out ‘happy ending’ in terms of the woman getting absolute revenge. It is a real ending, loaded with contradiction and ambivalence. After I saw
Promising Young Woman in 2019, even though my book was finished, I added a part on rape revenge.
Chanel Miller’s book
Know My Name is also rape revenge. As is my story. Both of our stories are taken from absolute lived experiences. There is revenge. The victims do win. But the triumph is interrogated, as nothing is ever one-dimensional. And this is not only interesting, it’s also important. As I say in my book, “neither side was going to claim absolute victory. Damage would be taken on both sides, and roles would be switched as this real-life game progressed. But, in the end, one would lose more than the other, even though the winner definitely lost a lot and, paradoxically, gained a lot too.” (Victim 44-45)
The ultimate revenge, is revolution: eradicating, dismantling rape culture. Even though I fall into the category of ‘radical’ feminist, I call myself a Logical Feminist. Even though revolutionizing ideology is far from simple, the reason for it is: anything that has anything to do with exploitation is wrong.
How the book came to be published is a book in itself. When I first started submitting
Victim to ‘dream’ agencies in NY and London, I found a website that said: “Oh, you think writing your book was hard!” For me writing a book is not hard—it’s not easy of course, it requires great discipline—but that great discipline is not hard to have when the writing, when art, is a joy. All artists are happiest when they are making art. When I have days or weeks or (be still my beating heart) months or years when ‘all’ I have to do is write and make art, I definitely don’t have a hard time getting out of bed in the morning. I awaken with a light heart. That said, yes, the writing part is easy because it's a joy. The publishing part was hell. I almost had at least three nervous breakdowns. But I believe in the power of never giving up. And, here you go:
Victim lives.
Vigilance Press is new indie press and an imprint of
Vigilance Fierce Feminisms Magazine. Yes, it is a bilingual magazine (English and Spanish). I write a lot for Vigilance because I spend so much time in Mexico.
Vigilance Fierce Feminisms Magazine is ‘for people who believe in the power of never giving up,’ the same as I do. It’s a perfect fit.
Victim: A Feminist Manifesto from a Fierce Survivor is Vigilance Press’ debut publication.
Anything I should say about the booklaunch? It sounds like there will be music? (I recognize Soressa’s name, anyhow). What is planned for the night?The Vancouver book launch and US Tour kick-off for Sexual Assault Awareness Month at Massy Arts is full. There is a 40 person capacity and I have 41 (I had to ask for one more for a good friend who was late signing up!). Yes,
Soressa Gardner is playing. However, there will be more events in Vancouver in May and June (the Canada Tour will begin in late June). If people would like to keep up on events, interviews, podcasts etc, they can sign up for the newsletter at
www.karenmoeauthor.com. You also get the first 21-page preview when you sign up. And, books are on sale on all online booksellers now! They will be available in select bookstores like People’s Coop Bookstore, Massy Books, Spartacus, Western Sky Books in Vancouver; Two Friends (Arkansas); Bookman’s (Arizona); and Café Con Libros and Bank of Books in California (to start).
[See the end of the interview for news about an eBook discount, if that's your preferred format]
Since this is a blog read primarily by local music geeks, there are possibly people out there who know MIZMO, if you are game to talk about the band. Who was in the band? Do you talk about MIZMO in the book? Did you write any songs about these experiences? Ever think of putting those demos out into the world, or revisiting that material?
Yes, the first thing I did when I got home to Vancouver after the abduction in 1994 was start a Rock & Roll band, MIZMO. I was traumatized but I also had a lot of knowledge about violence from that trauma and I was able to write songs so easily. And I had the rock 'n roll rage that was so potent in the 90s with Grrl Power. Ironically, this was one of the happiest times of my life … being on stage especially. Yes, I talk about MIZMO in the book. And about the lead guitar player who is now dead. He was the only person who was really there for me when I got back, traumatized, with all of the complexities of that, from Arizona in 1994.
I did have PTSD. I didn’t actually realize that until writing the book. I was a mess. But Rock & Roll loves it when people are messed up. The messed up rock star is very romantic and charismatic. But then I lost everything. I crashed. I have nothing from this time. It is the only regret of my life breaking up the band when tensions began between players. I thought I could do it again. But you never can. We had magic and I didn’t value it enough. Because I didn’t value myself. I thrashed around not caring about anything. I don’t even have a photo. I had a CD of a few unmastered recordings. Really bad quality. But I cherished it. I had it before I moved to Mexico City in 2015. Now I can’t even find that anymore. Maybe it’s in my very chaotic storage locker! When you told me you saw a MIZMO poster in the rubble of a demolished house, Allan
[actually it was glued to a wall that was coming down, around the Woodwards building demolition/ renovations], that made me happy and sad. Did you take a picture? I know you didn’t go in and get it. Maybe I’ll write a story about that. The poster in the rubble. All we have is what happened. And, in the end, even loss and regret are interesting.