So I have interviewed Joe Keithley about DOA in time for the May 11th show, but Montecristo, the magazine I was doing it for, had an angle they were interested in, which did not allow me a lot of space to rave about the other bands on the bill on May 11th. It's a hell of a four-band bill that spans a huge range of punk energies, with a marked contrast between the two female-fronted openers. Gritty East Van political punks Alien Boys (non-binary or female, but no boys in the band, note -- they're named for a Wipers song, and feature Erin of the Rebel Spell) have a very different vibe from the crotch-grabbin' debauchery that Wait/Less manifested at Keithmas (the only time I've seen them; they performed their hearts out -- they kinda answered the question of how the New York Dolls would have presented as if David and Johnny had actually been female -- but somehow all I can remember vividly is Allie's crotchgrab!). The contrast should be really something. I don't really know my Wait/Less but you should spend some time on Alien Boys' new album before the show.
Dead Bob, meanwhile -- who I've written about plenty on this very blog -- are, of course, the descendants of Nomeansno, with John Wright on drums; they're a spectacular live band, and feature some serious Vancouver talent (members of Rong, Invasives, Pigment Vehicle, and... is Ford Pier a member of himself? How does one include him on that list and maintain parallelism?). There's a generous helping of Nomeansno in their catalogue. I'm sure if you look on Youtube you'll find some cool footage... Hearing Colin MacRae of Pigment Vehicle do Rob's basslines on "Long Days" was really quite jaw-dropping.
But the main point of interest is that, of course, if you go back in DOA's history to their 1995 album The Black Spot, you learn that both Ford Pier and John Wright (2/5ths of Dead Bob) actually are on a DOA album together! I never knew the backstory behind the title, and my best guess seemed wrong -- that it was somehow an unusually self-deprecating gesture on Joe's part, as in, "this album is the black spot in DOA's career," heh. Which I don't think it is, actually; I personally prefer Loggerheads, which came before it, but there are some very enjoyable songs on the album, like fellow-big-guy Brian Goble's observations about the size of the average male DOA fan, featuring an authentic Tommy Hanson count-off; Ford Pier's song "Order," with another Brian Goble lead vocal, and also a fun rock video (is that really John Wright on drums?). And there's even a cover of David Peel on it, or, maybe, an adaptation, retitled as "Marijuana Motherfucker," which is always a ton of fun live (and probably the album's high point? Been awhile since I've listened to it!).
Anyhow, when I sat down with Joe Keithley for Montecristo, I asked him about The Black Spot. This is what he had to say (he gets things a bit wrong, in fact, where the origin of the spot comes from -- but we'll get to that!). Fittingly, I began this part of the conversation with a treasure metaphor...
Joe: [Then-DOA drummer] Ken Jensen [AKA Kenny Hanson] died in a housefire, tragically. John was going to produce the record, but obviously, we were stuck for a drummer, so John very magnanimously said, “Okay, I’ll drum on it.” And he’s a fabulous drummer, he’s great. But it’s a bit of a different feel than a lot of DOA drummers. He’s one of Canada’s best drummers, absolutely, just like Chuck and Dimwit were, but too, and Paddy the new guy is pretty good as well. [Chuckles] The new guy: ten years, that’s the new guy, for me…
But there are no real crazy stories with that. It came out on Virgin Canada, so this guy – I forget his name, but he’s this A&R guy and Laurie [Mercer, of DOA’s management company] hooked us into this deal: “Oh, the distribution will be fabulous,” like. And I know the record business. I’ve been on ten-twelve different labels, and most of the time, it stinks; it’s not better than what you had, right? I’ve done really well with Alternative Tentacles, they’re really square with me, and I’ve done really well with Sudden Death. And beyond that, there are about ten companies that I wish I’d never signed a deal with.
Allan: And Virgin was one of them?
Joe: They were okay… and Laurie was a good manager, so he thought it was right, so, whatever.
Joe: Because we had too many people dying! Like, in the sailors’ world, in the old British navy, when they’re going around conquering the world, at that point, if somebody shook your hand, and they put a black spot on your hand, that meant that you were going to get it, and soon. It could be construed as a threat or a warning, in the nautical world. I think Ford conceived that title, because we had rotten luck with members. [Do read Ford's elaborations on this, below]
Allan: Had Dimwit died at that point?
Joe: Yeah, because when Ken died, the Vancouver Sun read, “DOA has lost two drummers recently.” And they were Dimwit and Ken. That came out in 1996, and I believe Dimwit died in 1994. And Jensen died in January 1995. I was just sitting down to watch the Superbowl, and I got a call from Tom [Holliston] of Nomeansno: “hey, fuck, you better get over here.” And the house was... [Joe gestures a conflagration, shaking his head]. It was horrible.
Allan: It’s kind of a really collective DOA album. DOA has become known to be YOU, with whoever you’re backed with, but on that album, Ford wrote a song [“Order;” he also co-wrote “You’re Paying for Your Body Now” with Jensen], Brian [Goble] wrote songs [“More,” “Big Guys Like DOA,” “Running Out of Time”]… were you pushing other people to the fore?
Joe: No, Wimpy had a pretty good record writing songs – him and Mike Normal and Gerry wrote the key songs for the Subhumans [try this one, by Goble]. And Brian and I grew up together, so he said, “If I’m going to come into the band, I want to have my input into the material. And that worked out. Obviously in the early days I wrote a lot of songs with Chuck [Biscuits], who is a great songwriter, and obviously a great drummer. So it’s kinda one of those things where it just sort of worked out that way. Ford, I didn’t [initially] think of as writing, but he came up for some good material for that album, so that was fine. It’s the funny thing about songwriting, I think at times, when other people sat in and wrote songs for DOA, I think a couple of points we got a little off-track from what DOA should sound like. I’m not saying they weren’t good songs, but when you think of the real classic DOA, it’s War on 45, Something Better Change, Hardcore 81 and some singles. And there was a real precise madness to the way those songs were carried out. And most of those songs I wrote, and probably a half-dozen I wrote with Chuck.
Allan: [Shares Joe's quotes, then asks:] So were you especially interested in nautical history? (I know that John Wright is a big Patrick O'Brian fan, you ever read him?). How did you encounter the concept of the black spot? (Is Joe interpreting it correctly?).
Ford: My recollection of the titling of The Black Spot is that we had a HUGE list of potential titles drawn up by the three of us [Joe, Ford, and Brian Goble, who were DOA at that point, since they no longer had a drummer]. We met at Laurie Mercer's office and read out to one another and rejected in turn, one by one. We whittled several pages down to a short list of maybe half a dozen, and went across the street to the Lamplighter to settle on one of them once and for all. While there, we talked about the last night of mixing the album, which had recently happened. Joe and Brian went home and I stayed with Brian Else all night as he finished, offering encouragement or correction as needed, but mostly watching Treasure Island on TV in the lounge. We talked about Treasure Island and what a great movie it was and praised Robert Newton's performance and recited our favourite parts, which eventually led us to "The Black Spot." "Hahaha! We should call the album The Black Spot!" I cried. Hearty laughter. Then, though, we got to talking about how it sounded sort of cool, and how it had the meaning of telling someone "You're in trouble," or "This is serious now," or "You're being served notice," and we thought, "Yeah, this sort of resonates with songs on there like 'It'll Kill Ya Later' and 'Running Out Of Time,'" and before we knew it, we had decided the record would be called The Black Spot and drank a toast to it. Brian expressed interest in being photographed in pirate regalia and maybe having a stuffed parrot on his shoulder and Joe said "No way." It's one of my favourite memories from my time in the band.
Ford: I try not to walk under ladders or toast with water and I've been waiting for Mercury retrograde to end before buying a new computer.
Ford: I met Ken when he was traveling as a roadie with NoMeansNo in the '80's. He was a beloved fixture of the community of friends I eventually attached myself to when I moved to Vancouver and we went all the same places and hung around the same people. I remember when I did the cover for the Hansons' Gross Misconduct album, which is a spoof of the cover for the Ramones' Road To Ruin, featuring a cartoon of the four of them encircled by a chrome ring, Ken had a look at it and noticed the ring which frames the four Hansons with all the dents and patches on it and said, "It's like they dragged the one out of storage that they had used for the Ramones record!" which is exactly what I had been thinking when I was drawing it. Nobody else caught that or saw that. Ken and I had a lot of little things like that and I was looking forward to getting to spend more time with him and know him better, but he died before we got to do any real touring together. We watched a number of CFL games together, I recall, which wasn't something either of us usually did!
"Paying For Your Body" was Ken's music and had been demo'd as an instrumental before he died. We thought one of us should slap some lyrics on it so we could include some of his music on The Black Spot, and mine won the day.
Last time Vancouver saw you with Dead Bob, we heard you on keyboards, guitar, and trombone. Have you added any instruments this time? Want to give any hints at special things in store?
Ford: People who were at the last show will hear some things they didn't last time! 'Nuff said.
Allan: Is "Maybe It Came at the Wrong Time" in the set? Who is bragging about what in the first verse?
Ford: Part of the point of that song, which is not 100% successful, I wouldn't say, is that the vignettes are in medias res. We don't know what exactly we're seeing and we don't know whether it's important or not, and we'll never know what we weren't doing while we were paying attention to it.
Allan: You jump around every bit as much these days as you did in the "Order" video, but surely it is not as easy to do now?
Ford: Well, I'm not 24 anymore. That is true. I'm also no longer 140lbs soaking wet. Bodily submission to the music's power definitely involves more care than it used to.
Allan: How many Dead Bob shows have there been now? Any favourite moments stand out? Any amusing gaffes? (What is your favourite Nomeansno cover you've done?)
Ford: I've lost track, although we have adopted a helpful business of announcing the number of the show we're doing and attesting that we will never do another one with that number, so I'll be reminded. Thirty? Hopefully, we will continue this practice for many hundreds more. Every night is a new adventure with amusing gaffes and favourite moments both.
I have favourite NoMeansNo covers we haven't done: I would like us to do "Living In Detente," "SPJP," "Look Here Come The Wormies," and "Bruce's Diary."
Allan: Ha! "Wormies," love it!
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