John Lucas of The Starling Effect by David J. Froc
So apropos of an upcoming release, John Lucas, of Vancouver band the Starling Effect, whom I have also written about before, shares a demo with me of a new song, "A Strange Habit of Disappearing" (available now on their bandcamp). And (maybe this is just my go-to, which I had gotten lucky with previously?), I find myself thinking of Medicine Show, though more, say, "Daddy's Girl" or maybe "Merritville" than the title track. The tone is more epic and sweeping, there's not much hint of Springsteen (who can be heard creeping into the Dream Syndicate's sound), and there's more of a spacy shoegaze quality to the music, but lyrics like "Now you're in another place/ No one knows quite where" seem very Steve Wynn-like." But the Dream Syndicate are not mentioned in the "Recommended If You Like" (RIYL) section of the press release, which relates the music to "R.E.M., My Bloody Valentine, The Cure, Swervedriver, Ride, Pink Floyd, [and] Slowdive" (coincidentally on the cover of that Big Takeover!). At the very least, the Starling Effect remind me of the Dream Syndicate more than they do The Cure or Pink Floyd. Maybe the question isn't that stupid?
So I ask John Lucas. His answer takes in the band's work with Felix Fung, at whose studios the two new songs were recorded (see also "Blueskiesgrey"). The following email interview took place over this past weekend.
John Lucas of The Starling Effect (with Michael Nathanson on his left and Greg Williams on his right) by David J. Froc
AM: ...so is the Dream Syndicate totally irrelevant? Is this just me? Is there some other band we should be thinking of re: "A Strange Habit of Disappearing"?
JL: Interesting comparison! I say that because, as much as I’m ashamed to admit it, I don’t know the Dream Syndicate at all. I couldn’t actually name even one of their songs. So I couldn’t really say if I think we sound like them or not. But now that you have mentioned them, I will definitely investigate.
As we were recording, Felix would take note of other artists that he was hearing echoes of. I seem to recall that he mentioned Ride and Swervedriver, which didn’t come as a big surprise, as British shoegazing bands from the ’90s are definitely a major touchstone for me. When we were listening back after I did my vocal takes, he said “I love that Neil Diamond thing you did on that line.” The funny thing is, I knew exactly what he meant.
Felix and I bonded over our shared love for local radio institution CISL’s former incarnation as an oldies station. We both grew up hearing a lot of music that was created before our time, stuff from the ’50s and ’60s.I can’t pinpoint specifically where that might pop up in the music I’m making now, but it’s clearly still with me. For example, my wife and I recently spent a long weekend in Palm Springs, and we checked out a cool little shop called Gré Records & Coffee. Two of the records I picked up were Fifth Dimension by the Byrds and Insight Out by the Association. So, I guess jangly guitars and vocal harmonies still appeal to me.
AM: “A Strange Habit of Disappearing” is a great title – it feels like a line from a movie or novel. Is it? (I feel like I have heard this line in a few places: “He has a strange habit of disappearing when it’s time to pay the bill,” that sort of thing). Who is it in reference to? (Is the “you” of the song someone specific? Is the you you?). Tell me about the ideas and observations that went into the lyrics of this song? I particularly love the idea of someone hiding hoping someone will call their name – that conflicting impulse. I’ve known it in a bunch of people, including musicians who do things in the most perversely self-defeating way, almost like they’re testing to see if someone will make the effort to leap over the barricades they’ve constructed. I may be guilty of that myself sometimes. It’s a rich bit of psychology captured in simple lyrics – the best kind of lyric-writing, really. Where did the observation come from?
JL: I tend to employ a lot of metaphors and other poetic devices in my lyrics, but that song is entirely about me, and it’s fairly literal. When I was a kid I used to like hiding, and I preferred to do so in small, dark places, like inside a closet or wardrobe. I would stay in my hiding spot long after my parents noticed that I had disappeared and it was clear that they were looking for me.
I can’t really explain the reasons behind this behaviour. It might have been a response to some of the messier family dynamics in the home where I grew up. I might have wanted to disappear as a way to be one less problem, while simultaneously craving the feeling that someone cared enough to come searching for me.
In the song, I mention doing this during a birthday party, but that part was embellished a bit. It was actually a Halloween party at my house with a bunch of my classmates. I didn’t really hide; I just went off into another room and stayed there, doing my own thing for most of the party. I was a weird kid!
I don’t do this anymore, of course. But I do have a bit of an odd aversion to being noticed. It might seem perverse that I have always chosen jobs or hobbies that put me in the spotlight in some way, whether that’s being a bylined music journalist or playing in a band. I want people to appreciate my work, of course, but at the same time I feel ambivalent about being noticed too much. Yes, “perverse” is probably the best word for that. Remember in A Hard Day’s Night, when the reporter asks Ringo if he’s a mod or a rocker? Ringo replies, “Um, no, I’m a mocker.” I suppose if you asked me, “Are you an introvert or an extrovert?” I would have to say “Um, no. I’m a pervert.” Ha!
John Lucas of The Starling Effect by David J. Froc
AM: You mention in the press release that these songs were really a collaborative venture, but who wrote what? Are all lyrics yours?
I wrote all the lyrics, yes, and the vocal melodies. But I’m not a “songwriter,” per se. I never sit down with an acoustic guitar and write a song outside of the band context. Most of our musical ideas and arrangements come from working on things in our rehearsal space, collectively. Each member writes his own parts. For example, I give Greg [Williams] full credit for all of the guitar hooks on “A Strange Habit of Disappearing.”
AM: “Blueskiesgrey” would be great music to zone out to – it reminds me of recovering from surgery with my headphones on, spaced on painkillers, listening to Skylarking. Lots of texture and depth. Very psychedelic solo too – there's a solo that reminds me of something the Meat Puppets would do at their spaciest, but I don’t know if you’re a Kirkwood fan? What do you imagine that the ideal listening circumstances for a song like this would be? When you record a song, do you ever imagine the audience? (I’ve only ever seen you at the Princeton and this is just too big, too good, too nuanced for that space).
JL: We have always tried to create a lot of atmosphere, for a lack of a better word, with our music. In the past few years we have had to figure out how to do so as a four-piece, since our former guitarist, tundra, left the Starling Effect. An absolute master of tone and texture, tundra had to step away from the band for health reasons.
We love the venues that we usually play, like the Princeton and LanaLou’s. Great vibes in both of those spaces, like playing for friends in someone’s rec room. Really inspiring energy. I do think, on the other hand, that it’s really hard to capture the full spectrum of what we do in small pubs, especially ones where the vocals are the only thing miked and everything else is just plug-in-and-play.
We happily play shows like that all the time, but our material would arguably be better suited to a small theatre setting; somewhere that is still intimate but allows for a more sonically expansive approach. The fact is, of course, that we don’t quite have enough of a following to play soft-seaters or even bigger clubs. On that score, I sort of envy Greg, who plays in the wildly—and deservedly—popular Pink Floyd tribute band Crazy Diamonds. They regularly play theatres like the Hollywood and the Rio, and they’ve even played the Planetarium a couple of times.
The Meat Puppets never really get their due when people look back at the bands of their era. They tend to get overlooked, in spite of Kurt Cobain’s attempts to raise their profile. In fact, just yesterday someone (whose identity I will protect lest she face the wrath of Kirkwood fans) told me that “Plateau” is her favourite Nirvana song.
John Lucas of The Starling Effect by David J. Froc
AM: In the RIYL, you mention REM, and I actually was thinking of REM at one point while listening to these, and then DISMISSED that thought – “why the hell am I thinking they relate to REM?” And then they’re mentioned, so like, clearly I was hearing something, but what? How does REM relate to your playing/ songwriting/ music?
This might shed some light into how I synthesize my influences. I am a huge R.E.M. fan, and have been since I was about 14. Peter Buck in particular has had a profound influence on me. But I don’t sound anything like him, and I don’t try to play the way he plays or write parts that I think he would write.
I’m the same way with all of my other influences. For example, I love J. Mascis, and I even own both of his signature Jazzmasters (the Fender one and the Squier one), but I have never tried to play the way he does.
Now, the thing with both Buck and Mascis is that their styles and tones are so uniquely their own that you can tell who’s playing within just a few notes. And I think that’s the inspiration that I take away from them. I want to do what they do—create a singular, individual sound—without playing what they play.
Lyrically, I do draw inspiration from Michael Stipe, especially the R.E.M. stuff from the IRS years, when he was using imagery from his dreams and fragments of childhood memories as a source for his writing.
AM: I like that you’ve included a lyric sheet in your promo materials and know how rare that is for bands/ musicians to do. Is this something that you’re doing because of your own experience as a journalist? (Did you often find yourself wishing bands had given you a lyric sheet?). Does having had a career as a music writer help or hinder you in promoting yourself?
I included the lyrics because I have been told that it’s really hard to understand what I’m singing. While I have a great appreciation for artists who make no attempt to have their lyrics easily decipherable, we can’t all be My Bloody Valentine.
Yes, as a music journalist I always found it useful to be able to refer to the lyrics when interviewing an artist. And I actually found that many of them really appreciated my attempts to glean the meanings behind their songs, even if I wasn’t always completely on the mark. Apparently there are a lot of journalists who aren’t interested in delving that deep, and it can make things pretty boring to be asked the same questions over and over again.
I think that having been a journalist has been helpful, but not as helpful as my experience working in PR and marketing. Probably the most helpful thing, though, has been my occasional freelance sideline writing bios for other artists. That made me really think, “If I didn’t know anything about this artist, what would I want to find out, from a journalist’s perspective?” I write really good bios, by the way, and my rates are quite reasonable!
AM: Are you active as a writer since you mostly stopped with the Straight? I mostly do Montecristo, Big Takeover, and my blog. Are you finding it more desirable to focus on your own music than other people’s?
I’m a copywriter in the marketing department of a tech company. So I do a lot of writing, but my name is never on any of it.
I’m a copywriter in the marketing department of a tech company. So I do a lot of writing, but my name is never on any of it.
I have written a few arts pieces on a freelance basis for the Straight, and I sometimes write for Stir, which of course was started by former Straight staff. So, I do keep my hand in.
I do miss writing about music on a regular basis, especially with the way concert ticket prices have been skyrocketing in recent years. I really miss those comp tickets and guest-list privileges!
Are these advance singles for an album – do you have bigger plans – or just two songs for the time being?
We actually recorded the bass and drums for two other songs while we were at Little Red Sounds, and the plan is to go back and finish them, possibly in the fall. That will be another two-song single. We will be playing those songs at our April 19 show at the Princeton.
There’s a possibility that if we do a few more of these digital singles, we will eventually compile them into an album, or at least an EP. I would love to put something out on vinyl. I recently dusted off the name of my old indie label, Submerged Records, so maybe we will put out an actual record at some point.
AM: If John Armstrong wants to be the Robert Mitchum and Steve Wynn wants to be the Raymond Chandler, who would YOU like to be?
This is a hard question to answer without coming across as a pretentious twat, but I’m going to go with Chris Ware. He has a way of delivering an emotional gut-punch in a way that’s still funny. And he’s so precise. His work can be visually complex, but it’s also clean, with each detail rendered without so much as a line or a dot where there doesn’t need to be one.
I’m no cartoonist, but I aspire to be like the Chris Ware of indie rock, to create work that is emotionally impactful but still entertaining, delivered in a way that is aesthetically rich without being overwrought.
AM: Anything we should say about live shows coming up? I see you played a Green Auto show with We Found a Lovebird – how did that go? It seems like a good pairing, which has nothing to do with the birds in both your band names, but…
That was at the Princeton. Actually, we have never played at Green Auto, but we are certainly open to it.
We Found a Lovebird is great. We’ll play with them again any time. The bird thing was just a happy coincidence. We also played with Bloom Effect last year—at their first-ever gig, actually. Aaron Trory was also on the bill, and we tried to convince him to bill himself as “The Aaron Trory Effect” for the evening. To no effect.
Our next show is at the Princeton on April 19. It will be us along with Hotel Empress and Pontiac. It should be a fun night!
After that, who knows? Nothing else on the calendar at the moment. We will consider any reasonable offer of a gig!
That was at the Princeton. Actually, we have never played at Green Auto, but we are certainly open to it.
We Found a Lovebird is great. We’ll play with them again any time. The bird thing was just a happy coincidence. We also played with Bloom Effect last year—at their first-ever gig, actually. Aaron Trory was also on the bill, and we tried to convince him to bill himself as “The Aaron Trory Effect” for the evening. To no effect.
Our next show is at the Princeton on April 19. It will be us along with Hotel Empress and Pontiac. It should be a fun night!
After that, who knows? Nothing else on the calendar at the moment. We will consider any reasonable offer of a gig!
See here for another current feature on the Starling Effect; gig details here!
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