David M. and Dave Dedrick at the Heritage Grill (I think) circa 2019 (I think)
David M. sometimes pokes me about a rather unflattering review I wrote of a NO FUN Christmas show, back in 2004 when Paul Leahy was still around, but before M and I became friends. I was kind of amused and kind of irritated, that night at the Railway Club, to see that they were still doing Gorgo ads, for instance - a lime toffee chew bar that, in the early 1980s, they had ironically named as their corporate sponsor, I believe long before Gorgo actually ever sent them a case of the candy and some swag to reward them for their efforts. For those who do not know what NO FUN Gorgo ad is, they - and by they I mean primarily vocalist/ guitarist David M. - will take a song - Neil Young's "Heart of Gold," for instance - and re-write the lyrics, to the same tune, as a testimonial to the joys of Gorgo ("I've been searchin' for a bar of Gor'..."), replete with references to chewing and lime. That one doesn't appear to Youtube, that I can easily find, but there's "Gorgo Rhapsody," for example; you'll get the idea. They're always amusing - especially when David does his Richard Butler impersonation, I think in an ad called "Lime My Way" - but also kind of a weird thing to turn into a tradition, given that Gorgo (which I actually once ate a bar of, as a NO FUN fan in Maple Ridge in the early 1980s) has been defunct as product for, I dunno, 35-odd years; it has the effect - maybe not all that career-positive - of limiting the appeal of NO FUN shows either a) to fans of the band from the 1980s who are still able to get to gigs, remember what Gorgo was, and have fondness for the tradition (there are maybe 20 such people out there) or b) people who have a passionate curiosity about in-jokes that they are completely on the outside of. At least contemporary audiences, witnessing David M. do a 70-song-odd medley of adaptations of "Good King Wenceslas" (the first five of which can be found here) likely know what "Good King Wenceslas" is, before, f'rinstance, David sings a song about Wenceslas to the tune of the Spiderman theme (he actually does this, among many other variants). As someone who wants to see the musicians I like receive their due appreciation, I am annoyed when they wilfully, perversely make choices that I see as limiting their success.
...And the truth is (maybe) that most people do NOT like feeling like they are on the outside of in-jokes... which may have something to do with the fact that, since I blogged about David's 2013 discovery of a hidden Gorgo case, more people have commented about their memories of this obscure, non-extant candy than they have about NO FUN... At the same time, as someone who has blogged for almost no material reward for close to 20 years, now, I have come to quite admire M's lack of interest in conventional notions of success and his devotion to doing things on his own terms (even in that 2004 review you can tell I was as impressed as I was perplexed).
Anyhow, some 20 years after my semi-scathing putdown of NO FUN at the Railway, M. still performs, and nowadays, as a faithful fan and friend, I help him out a bit, for instance intervening to get the current NO FUN lineup (David, Pete, and Dave Dedrick) included on the bill at that recent benefit for Ukrainian refugees in Poland, which I am glad happened, since M. (for Matychuk) is actually Ukrainian in his heritage. True to form, M. adapted a NO FUN classic ("Work, Drink, Fuck, Die") which I'm guessing maybe five people not on stage that night actually knew, to become topical ("Work, Drink, Fuck Putin"), performing it along with, among other things, a spoofed Russian army fight song based on a tune that I do not know and what I believe is "Hit the Road Vlad," with Tim Chan joining on vocals alongside his old Vancouver Island mate Pete Campbell (lead guitar). Video of this performance exists, and now people who did not get the joke at the time can go back and listen to the NO FUN original...
...which, if you dig it, you can now also actually order on CD, thanks to Atomic Werewolf, an online label that has, with M.'s blessing but with surprisingly little of his direct involvement, been releasing the classic, originally cassette-only NO FUN albums, all of which are very fun and unique (but start with 1894, Snivel - both discs - and The New Switcheroo). Meanwhile, those who are aware this is going on, who wish to keep abreast of new developments, may not realize that Tom Lee Music HELL, a NO FUN document from 1990, just dropped this weekend, featuring, I am told (I believe by Kent Lindsay), "lots of tracks not available elsewhere," impressing even M. with the depth of their dig. I now have four of these CDs, and can attest to just how terrific they sound, better than what I have heard from M. himself. It's some of the best music to come out of the fringes of the Vancouver punk scene that has NOT undergone a renaissance; and while things do appear to be moving a bit faster than they had been you still have time to get on board before the rest of the world catches up.
I interviewed Kent Lindsay (also of the New Heads) and "dv," AKA Deviant (of these varied projects) about Atomic Werewolf and their history with NO FUN. I sure hope the rest of this is self-explanatory!
Allan: So what is your history with NO FUN? When did you get on board, and what's your favourite album by them?
dv: I was a casual fan in the 80s, friend of a fanatical fan (even before I knew Kent beyond his involvement as a New Head and any knowledge of The New Heads' fanatical NO FUN fandom). This particular fan was responsible, partially inspired by NO FUN, in starting a duo with me where he ranted Bukoswkiesque musing while I noodled pseudo-folk-jazz guitar in the background. Which was always a disaster and went nowhere in Vancouver, but it was the seed for a resurrected & re-envisioned "drunkabilly" version of that duo with a new vocalist/ actor/ madman when I lived in Chicago. That duo had a pretty far-out 10 year run that exploded in law suits and other weirdness after we moved out to Hollywood (but not before playing a show with NO FUN on one of our Vancouver stops in the mid-2000s).
Also, somewhere around 1991, Kent (the New Head, now my partner in Atomic Werewolf), who was managing NO FUN to some degree or other at the time, became the road manager of a band of mine and "wormed his way" into being our de facto manager as well. (He was apparently robbed of his "perfect trifecta" as NoMeansNo already had a manager in Laurie Mercer and there was no way to steal them). And I'm pretty sure I played a rare solo show opening for solo David M. not long before I moved to Chicago. I always felt like a distant relative of NO FUN by marriage, though the thought of somehow being married to The New Heads is really disturbing. As far as the albums go: for nostalgia, Snivel and the Vancouver Complication tracks ["Old" and "Mindless Aggression"] are the personal faves. And while all of the "Core 5" studio recordings have a lot to recommend them individually (all having a large number of stand-out tracks), I’ve actually been more drawn to The Night Smells Like A Dog as the years go by.
Kent: I first saw NO FUN when I was in college (Capilano). I was young at the time, only 16, and having a blast. My band “The New Heads” met there (more on that in one of the following questions). Some of the guys from Slow went there too, it was a great time. Life was always about going to shows; with my besties in The New Heads we tried to hit almost every gig, especially DOA, Nomeansno, No Fun, and dv’s bands. It was an incredible time for local music. If we could weasel our way into an opening slot, all the better! I knew of NO FUN before ever seeing them. I had an EP, and Vancouver Complication, but it was hard connecting the dots between that and the songs being played on the radio - "Don’t Leave Me Hanging" and "It Came from Heaven." All fantastic, but how was this the same band?
[original 7", not as yet reissued]
When 1894 came out it was an instant buy, and I was amazed with how they could pull off that much punch as a duo. I can’t recall if I got the Snivel box before or after that, it seemed like quite an investment for a struggling student, but an immediately blown mind. It was without rival in the local music scene. So when I first saw NO FUN I thought I was prepared for what I would see, but you can never be prepared for NO FUN! Needless to say I’ve tried to be at every show since. Going to shows quickly led to getting invited to David M.’s house and meeting the band and his parents. First trip the New Heads all visited at once, and being a North Shore boy this was my first venture into legendary Surrey. It was a hot day and I remember being stopped at a light in Whalley and a greaser was crossing the road holding a gas canister while smoking. It truly was a magical place. We went to the Fresgo Inn for lunch and got Suzy Goodwin’s autograph (she was working there). Many a repeat weekend back at David M.’s over the next decade. Through the years I worked as a “manger”, [I cannot tell if this is a typo or deliberate misspelling of "manager" so am just leaving it] sometimes booking and promoting NO FUN shows and helping put out and hustle some of the cassette releases. I spent years overseas and in the US, taking me away from the local “scene”, but when digital music started I ran the NO FUN mp3.com and GarageBand pages, getting tens of thousands of plays, and new fans worldwide. Around this time NO FUN, David M, and the New Heads all appeared on an Atomic Mouse compilation album with some of dv’s bands, so this could be seen as the seed for Atomic Werewolf. I feel what we are doing is a natural evolution of what has been done before. NO FUN played at my wedding where David M was my best man.
As for favourite album I’m partial to them all, especially as a record label I think they stand alone individually as remarkable releases. That said, I always felt that The Night Smells Like a Dog was the pinnacle of the Paul era recordings, and never found the wider audience it deserved. Hopefully we can change that with the new rerelease.
[Master Tape for NO FUN at Christmas]
Allan: David seems to be a really under-appreciated figure, but I don't totally understand that. He may have some complicity in it - he has his own unique way of doing things, and NO FUN bet on a format, the cassette, that hasn't lasted so well - but I still wonder why they aren't better appreciated. Do you have a theory? Do you see yourself as staging an intervention here....?
dv: Completely under-appreciated. Having lived my entire adult life in and out of the fringes of the music industry, it's clear to me that there's a big piece of what happens in the equation that is random. Somebody could have sneezed and Robert Pollard would never have played outside of Ohio and David M. and Paul Leahy would have made a record with Nick Lowe. I wouldn't call it an intervention per se, but I’m happy that David trusts Kent and that Kent trusts me, and together we can find a way so that the body of his work left to future generations won't be limited to "Be Like Us" [available on the Last Call compilation] and "Mindless Aggression" [on the Vancouver Complication; early, OOP singles and cassettes aside, these were the only two NO FUN songs that were relatively easy to find on physical media]. Both are fantastic tracks, but it's such a small sample. And you don't really realize how smart and multi-layered the material is until you do a deep dive. Yes, the physical editions will make it easier for those in the know to get titles they missed or misused, or just want to hear a fresh master, or perhaps be get treated to formerly unheard or super-limited things, but we're also very interested in inserting these titles into the vast commercial digital catalogues as a matter of record. The kids won’t ever find the music unless the music is where the kids look for music.
Kent: I’m far from of the Vancouver “scene” so I can’t really speak to it, but I think one of the things that impacted NO FUN was not being able to break out to a larger audience. That may have taken years of touring Canada and the US for no money in a beat up van. Others did that, but it’s not for everyone. A record deal would have obviously helped, I’m still dumbfounded how no one signed them after Ghost Paper Boy, during the rush to snap up New Wave bands. But how many indie bands have thought they’ve won the golden ticket only to have a label clip their wings? Music has always been cyclical.
The cassette boom allowed bands to be able to make their own releases without a big pile of cash, or servitude to a label, and it opened a wealth of creativity. Musical elitism was threatened for the first time. Without this I wouldn’t have heard 1894 or Snivel, or dv’s wealth of releases. So I’m a huge fan of the format. That ease also opened up a flood of shit, diluting the overall quality of independent music (witness the New Heads). So it’s understandable that CDs became the better and shinier option for music playback, but again raised the entry level for independent artists. Would The New Switcheroo or TNSLAD gotten more press and sales on CD? Perhaps. I don’t know if NO FUN (and me) bet on the wrong format, or if consumers are just fickle. It didn’t take long for the ability for anyone to burn their own CDs came along, so really NO FUN just missed a blip in time. Clearly we’re in it for the long haul, including embracing formats that haven’t been invented yet (perhaps beaming music directly into the brain)… I don’t see what Atomic Werewolf is doing as an intervention, but I do want the music to be available and heard. For me this was really spurned by knowing the New Heads could be heard on every known streaming platform, but not so NO FUN. Selfishly I wanted to be able to open my phone and hear "Be Like Us" any time I wanted. Paul Leahy’s incredible contributions should not be buried, but available for anyone to hear. Anytime, anywhere. NO FUN have existed on Bandcamp, and Dave released the definitive box sets before declaring a moratorium. We don’t want to take away from these, but offer a different and complimentary path. Bandcamp is our preferred platform, and we will always offer the definitive editions there, but I see a lot of independent artists only existing on Bandcamp. We feel if you can’t offer your product on all streaming platforms, then you are excluding swaths of potential listeners. Accordingly, we publish everywhere, while ensuring physical copies are available - CDs, cassettes, and sometimes vinyl. The best format for NO FUN has always been live in concert!
Allan: How did the Atomic Werewolf imprint get started? I notice other Atomic Werewolves out there, but I have no idea if they connect. Who are your partners in this venture? Why are the CDs being pressed in Poland, that's kinda interesting...
dv: Kent had taken notice of some of the recent changes I'd been making at the distro/ labels I've been running/ evolving since 1999 and saw the potential for doing NO FUN re-issues. I don’t recall exactly how the plan was hatched, but I wasn’t going to do it unless he'd partner with me on it (partly because my hands are already pretty full and partly because he has fairly direct access to David M). So, it's essentially the two of us with our extended resources. The Atomic is from my Atomic Mouse Recordings imprint plus a nod to Werewolf T-Shirts Records (David M.'s own DIY label). Logo by Andrew Goldfarb, a San Francisco artist and musician (as the surrealist one-man band The Slow Poisoner). It won't be exclusively NO FUN releases, but that is its primary purpose. Part of what intrigued Kent in getting me involved with reissues and archival material was my use of the guys in Poland for CDs and cassettes. Their short-run model was something I had attempted in 1999 but couldn't quite get off the ground the way I envisioned it, but I immediately recognized the value in what they are doing when I saw it. They are a little slow on fulfillment sometimes, but they do better quality for less money and hassle than anybody else I've seen in that exact space. It's also a way for me not to have to store so much (distro) inventory on-site. Over the past year, I've reduced Fractional Farthing's storage needs from a garage to a closet plus a couple of boxes. Our short run vinyl is being done in Calgary with Robyn Raymond. Not sure who will be doing the next full press-run vinyl (there's a non-NO FUN Atomic Werewolf 7" and an Atomic Mouse Recordings 7" by Chicago outsider hip-hop legend Sharkula currently in the works).
Kent: As per dv’s comments I’ve followed and enjoyed his label for years, and it’s not just Fractional Farthing's distribution channels and physical media partnerships, but his strength in re/mastering and graphic design, that makes Atomic Werewolf the ideal partnership. As for the Poland connection, we really love their product, I saw what they were doing with Atomic Mouse releases and really wanted to see that for NO FUN. There’s no plastic used so we aren’t paving the environment, and it avoids the disappointment of receiving a cracked jewel or cassette case. Everything is protected in its own paper envelope, and the CDs are super awesome as they aren’t the dreaded (and disc-scratching) digipaks, but a replica of vinyl packaging with a sleeve for the CD that slides into the album cover. I love physical media and these are fucking cool. The other advantage to Poland is their mail cost. Anyone who’s ordered anything lately (outside of Amazon Prime) knows how expensive shipping has become. We can have an order fulfilled by Poland to North America cheaper than it costs us to mail domestically. It makes sense to not work as a middleman and have the orders shipped direct, passing the savings on to the fans. If anyone is one the fence I hope they can give it a try.
Allan: I am waiting for a vinyl release of 1894; is that in the works? (Or any vinyl LPs?).
Allan: I am waiting for a vinyl release of 1894; is that in the works? (Or any vinyl LPs?).
dv: We do have a secret short-run LP idea on the back burner that may happen if Kent can acquire the appropriate master recordings on his next trip to Vancouver. The problem with vinyl is overhead cost. While we'd love to see the "Core 5" on vinyl, it's not viable now. The two NO FUN 7"s we've done so far ["Be Like Us"/ "Work, Drink, Fuck, Die" and "Here Comes Jesus"/ "Swimming Pool"] were done as loss-leaders. Not a huge loss, but, not to get all Zwol about it, the more you drop on something, the more you worry about return on investment. If we grow NO FUN's reach far enough, I'm sure we'd do the LPs. We'd consider that a big win. But for now, as much as we all have criticisms of the streaming/digital space, this where the enduring legacy will be. If you want people under a certain age to "check it out", the content has to be on a platform they already use.
Kent: With the recent arrival of some splicing tape, David M. is working on transfers from his original 4-Track reel to reel recordings. Don’t have an ETA and there is a lot of material to go through. We want to make more vinyl, and I’m sure we will, but as dv stated it comes down to supply and demand. If we can make a larger run, our price per unit comes down, otherwise we do smaller runs at a higher price. I’m thrilled with small runs right now, the handcrafted lathe cut singles as made by Red Spade Records are beautiful works of art.
Allan: What is the best selling NO FUN release so far?
Allan: What is the best selling NO FUN release so far?
dv: As far as physical units go, Snivel is out front with 1894 not far behind. But those were also the first ones we did. Typically, as each reissue comes out, people will pick up another reissue or two at the same time. In the streaming space, 1894 is the biggest followed by Snivel.
Allan: Who are the New Heads and where should a person start in listening to them?
dv: The New Heads are not an easy thing to explain. I think I once said "imagine if The Residents played outsider music". The only thing I know of that’s easily available is the "lost" album I remixed/edited for them a few years ago that was released as Taped Over (because the multitrack they handed me back in the day, which sat in my drawer for a couple of decades, was labeled "taped over"). The formal release also included a lot of bonus tracks from the 80s to give people a taste of the classic New Heads experience. It streams everywhere and can be found at the Lindsay Labs bandcamp (CD available there as well).
Kent: The New Heads suck and are of little to no consequence. Probably the most coherent description is from the Atomic Mouse site: "Vancouver's self-proclaimed 'most annoying band' was a local staple of shenanigans throughout the 1980s. The New Heads are a conceptual and genre-spanning outfit born of basement punk rock, electronic noodling, and musical fanboyism. These are the suburban miscreants and pranksters that brought you the DIY basement cassette release Nancy Punks and have created so many performance art appearances that it's impossible to chronicle." Growing up on the North Shore I used to religiously watch Soundproof (as did everyone else) and they would often hype the New Heads, who would send them things like posters or a pizza with their band name spelled out on it. I had no idea who they were until college when a common friend introduced me to (the amazing) Kevin Crook. I was trying to recruit a band to record and perform some songs I had written in high school and Kevin had a band, the New Heads. I listened to one of their cassettes and was immediately hooked. We joined forces and with other fresh blood took the band out of the basement and onto stages. We emulated Vancouver’s “fuck band” mentality of the time, and we were indeed fucking awful. It’s interesting that dv mentioned the Residents, as that is who Rob Wright and others sometimes compared us to. I’ve never made the connection, and we aren’t even worthy enough to be in the same sentence, but as a gentle nod to this Hardy Fox is on one of Taped Over’s bonus tracks. The New Heads have a number of spin-off bands. The New Heads on the Block had an EP produced by dv, with lyrical assistance from David M. We didn’t really give either of them much choice in the matter. We lip synced to this once on stage, then this got vaulted for decades. GLOB, another offshoot, did one headlining appearance in the early 90’s before disappearing, but have done some recent recorded collabs. Likely more GLOB to come, and maybe more New Heads…
David M's caption: "30 newly found DAT tapes containing vintage NO FUN shows from the early 1990's? Oh, no."
What future plans do you have for Atomic Werewolf?
dv: the primary task is to work our way through David M.'s archives and make sure his work is available digitally and in context with the best chance of it being available to future generations. This includes material from the mostly unknown mountain of early recordings and the treasure trove of post-1990 material that has never been presented in its intended context. We also have plans for some non-NO FUN releases that aren't 100% finalized, but some diverse stuff, including a couple of bits of vinyl and a couple of best-of collections (possibly including the aforementioned duo that died in Hollywood). The bad thing about the whole Atomic Werewolf thing is also the good thing about the whole Atomic Werewolf thing: it means Kent and I communicate almost every day now which inevitably leads to scheming all sorts of releases.
[Master tapes for the original cassette runs; I gather M. has recently found a trove of other tapes, too]
Kent: I’m really excited about our next offering, it’s a live album that David M. released after his box set, so you (Allan) have probably heard it, but it’s now going to be available to a larger audience. It’s got originals not available anywhere else, including a great Paul Leahy song, and lots of Pico (Penny Borg) throughout! 2023 should see the definitive Beatles of Surrey edition, NO FUN at Christmas, OLD releases, and some surprises. There are on buttload of NO FUN albums from the band era that predate guitarist Paul Leahy. There’s almost bottomless live releases to transfer and cull through, not to mention over 70 Wenceslases that need to be recorded for the world to hear. WENCESLASES! I’ve just invested in a Lindsay Labs computer this weekend, to help with cataloging and assembling what’s coming next, aided by 2TB worth of music files recently provided by David M. We are just getting started! Atomic Werewolf will also start transferring live NO FUN video in its possession, so look for treasure to start popping up on YouTube later this year. My son has been working on an album that will launch on Atomic Werewolf and/or Lindsay Labs this year. Something exciting and different. Saxophones!
RIP, Paul Leahy and Glen "Lester Interest" Livingstone
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