Note: I use a couple of homophobic slurs in this piece of writing, to describe things routinely said to me (and many other people) back in the 1980's. It just doesn't feel right using "f______" - which doesn't capture the feeling of having that word violently directed at you - and, like, unlike the phrase "the n-word," which never confuses anyone as to which word is meant, "the f-word" is already taken.... not that that really captures my main reason for not wanting to soften my language: I mostly just don't feel like the people who used homophobic slurs as a weapon deserve the courtesy of having their phrasing sanitized. If the word is upsetting, The Empress of Vancouver, which opens Friday at the VIFF Centre, will also be upsetting, because it has some pretty unpleasant displays of virulent, hateful homophobia in it (it's even visible in the trailer. Note that I have yet to actually see the film - my wife and I are saving it for a night where it feel right - but it sounds like it's overall going to be quite inspiring; certainly Oliv Howe, the main figure in the film, is. But, uh... trigger warning, I guess...
I wrote about my own experiences of homophobia in 1980's Maple Ridge for Xtra West some years ago - one of several stories I did for them back when I was trying to get published anywhere I could, despite my being straight-identified, largely because of those experiences; it's always shamed me a bit that I dutifully "learned my lesson" back then, that exploring that side of my sexuality would be dangerous, perhaps get me shitkicked, even killed. I mean, as a young punk with funny hair, at least a small queer streak, and an open contempt for most of the signifiers of manhood back then - flannel, Led Zep and AC/DC shirts, Camaros, team sports, etc. - I was already getting called a faggot, often shouted from passing muscle cars, which would sometimes slow and stop as the occupants sussed out whether I would be an easy target. I remember one incident where someone, a thuggish dude from my high school, walking with his friends past me on the sidewalk - someone I had never interacted with before at all - directed that word at me ("faggot!") and I countered over my shoulder with a jaunty "Asshole!," and got punched several times in the head for my trouble. Afterwards I felt mostly bad that I reacted by apologizing to him, after a couple roundhouses, because a) I wasn't actually angry with him, just responding in kind - I mean, what DO you say, socially, in such a circumstance? b) I had no idea how to fight (though I would have tried if I'd actually been angry at him - I have a bit of a hot temper, but being called a nasty name by a complete stranger is not the sort of thing that sets it off) and c) fighting was not going to make things less violent or painful or bring them to a faster conclusion. Cowardly or no, apologizing to him seemed the all round easiest route to making the punching stop. Good thing I hadn't used an even more targeted slur like "midget!" (he was not actually a dwarf, but was pretty short, which might have been part of his problem. Imagine I'd be dead now if that had been my comeback!).
Anyhow, coward that I am, people like Oliv Howe, the subject of The Empress of Vancouver, amaze and confuse me. While I was locking my occasional queerish impules away, to almost never be acted on, Oliv, at about the same time period, was dressing in outlandish drag and parading her non-normative, gender-role-defying outsiderness out there for all to see. Never mind that for awhile I had a fauxhawk and dyed hair and even, for about a day, what was routinely called a "fag tag" - which a barber-school trainee I gave free reign to designed for me, because he thought, when I said I was a punk, that I meant I liked Billy Idol or something. I may have worn my difference out into the world, at least for awhile - but it didn't challenge gender norms one bit. It's not like I was dressing like Gary Floyd or Dave Dictor or Biscuit did. Whatever one might say about punks being "a new minority," there were plenty of homophobic punk bands (the Descendents, who once had a lyric to the effect of "go away, you fucking gay," from a song - "I'm Not a Loser" - that they no longer play live; or try the Bad Brains or FEAR or...). The problem was that the thugs didn't differentiate...
Anyhow, like I say, I have not yet seen The Empress of Vancouver, but I have met the filmmaker, Dave Rodden-Shortt. He's actually a friend of a friend of my wife's, and someone with a deep interest in Vancouver's history - including documenting the forgotten homophobia of 80's Vancouver and telling the story of the 10th Empress of the Vancouver Dogwood Monarchist Society. Interview follows (I am in italics, Dave is not).
Dave: I met Oliv Howe while conducting research for a series on BC History for the Knowledge Network. We met for coffee and I knew instantly I was in the company of a truly one of a kind person. She’s authentic, smart, and has a fantastic sense of humour. She’s a great storyteller and remembers the past with a vividness that’s rare. I went back to the Lantern Films office to tell my business partner, Jessica Hallenbeck that we might have found the perfect subject for a feature length film. And indeed we had!
From the trailer, it looks like Oliv participated in film back in the 1980's ("Is it on?" - that LOOKS vintage; where was that from...?). Did you have access to a wealth of archival material, or did you have to dig? (It also looks like you have contemporary footage of/ interviews with Oliv...? How much of the film is archival, how much of it stuff you shot...?).
We really had to dig for archival material. The clip you’re referring to is from an episode of Gayblevision – Canada’s first Gay and Lesbian TV program. Almost every episode of the program has been saved and VIVO Media Arts kindly gave us access to this material for the film. I was ecstatic when we found footage of Oliv in episodes of Gayblevision from 1980/81. As in, jumping up and down excited.
For the archival footage of the 1981 Gay Unity Parade we reached out to someone that was rumoured to have 8mm footage of the event. After hours of searching through his storage he finally found the footage and we had it digitized.
In addition to people’s personal archives and the Gayblevision episodes, we used footage from CBC and NFB. In total, I’d say at least a quarter of the film is archival material which is something I really love about the film, especially since queer history has so often been erased.
Did you encounter any resistance to using any of the archival footage, or find stuff that was just too ugly/ depressing to use? It looks like there's some pretty shitty behaviour on display (the "No More Faggots" chant, for example). How and where did you find that footage...?). Assumedly some of the people "on the wrong side of history" in that footage are still alive today - did you encounter any of them? Are they remorseful, or...? Are there any trigger warnings for audiences...? Do you have footage of gay bashings, for example...?).
One of the challenges of telling Oliv’s story is that people forget how bad things were. We figured the best way to show this was to use archival footage. So ya, there’s a lot of really shitty behaviour on display in the film. There were a few minor re-edits that we had to make in order to secure access to footage, but in general we were able to get the footage we needed to tell the story.
What were the most surprising discoveries - positive or negative - in digging back into Vancouver's past from a queer-centric perspective? (How "untold" is this story, anyhow? Are there any other films you would like to give a nod to as precursors? I am aware of plenty of films about Vancouver in the 1980's, but I don't know any that touch on this history...?)
There were so many discoveries! For one, I had no idea Vancouver hosted the first official Pride Parade in Canada. I also had no idea the gay and lesbian community was largely responsible for getting Mike Harcourt elected in the 1981 municipal election.
In terms of the queer community, I learned that there were really deep divisions within the community at the time. It was disturbing to discover that there were open discussions about whether or not trans people should be included in the movement. There were also deep divisions between lesbians and gay men. These divisions still exist to some extent, but they were much more pronounced at the time.
I don't know how old you are or if you're from here originally - were you around for any of the things you document in the film, first hand...? What were your own experiences of homophobia "back then?" How did they impact you?
I’m 47. I wasn’t around for this period in Vancouver but I did experience plenty of homophobia when I came out in the early 90s and I was around to witness the horror that was the AIDS crisis. It’s hard for people to imagine the challenges that existed for queer people until recently. I’ve been profoundly impacted by these experiences and I’m in total awe of people like Oliv that survived, and even thrived in spite of these challenges.
I could see that Oliv's story would be quite inspiring - did you have any personal inspirational figures of your own that came to mind - "your own Oliv...?"
I’ve been inspired by friends and family meeting life’s challenges head on. I have friends who have had incredible life challenges and have somehow persevered.
I know in the 1970s and 80's there was a bit of an overlap between the Vancouver punk scenes and the queer scene in Vancouver - for example, on the homepage for the film, there's a John Barley's logo - a club on Cordova; I believe they were a club that functioned in both worlds...? (And I believe were later the location of one incarnation of the Cruel Elephant and even later, briefly, the Hindenburg). Is any of that in your film? (Any music, any punks...? Bill Scherk...?)
Absolutely! There was a lot of overlap. At least with Oliv there was. Some people even referred to Oliv as the “Punk Empress”. I wish there was more room in the film to cover the punk scene and the overlap between the queer and punk scene but in the end we just didn’t have the space to do so. It’s something Oliv talked about and it’s an important part of Vancouver’s history. There needs to be a whole other documentary about this.
Oliv actually reminds me of my straight, art-punk dandy friend Nathan Holiday, a bit, in that Nathan also cuts a very distinctive figure. Did you ever personally engage in any sort of outlandish costume? (I've almost always favoured very straight dress myself, have very little inclination to dress wildly, so - whether it's drag or punk - so I find myself a bit of a voyeur, an outsider when it comes to this kinda thing.... you?
I’ve never really utilized fashion and costume to express myself but I admire people who do. Oliv makes her own clothes and it’s a whole other language which I’m fascinated by. I feel like my thoughts and sense of humour are a bit out there, but I present as a pretty boring guy lol.
No worries, so do I, the odd Hawaiian shirt aside. So what’s Oraf’s involvement in the film? (he’s famed among local punks for taking the cover photo of the Subhumans’ Incorrect Thoughts, but I actually don’t know much else of Oraf’s work….
Oraf’s photography is an essential component of the film. His style of photography was way ahead of its time. It was illegal to photograph people in the bars in 1981, but Oraf had special permission to do so. As a result, the photos you see in the film are extremely rare. Oraf followed Oliv for a couple of years and photographed her almost every day. He’s still doing great work and I feel like he’s owed recognition. My business partner Jessica has been working with the queer archives in order to protect his work and ensure that it gets the exposure it deserves.
I gather the documentary has had some warm reception already, right? Will there be guests present at the VIFF screenings - for one night, all nights...? Are there any local institutions or filmmakers or scenes that you'd like to give a shout out to, who were particularly helpful in making the film?
I’m blown away by the reception of the film so far, especially considering the film was made on a micro-budget and is unapologetically Vancouver. The film was selected as the Opening Gala film at the Vancouver Queer Film Festival and sold out a week before the screening. At the gala, the film - and Oliv - received a 5 minute standing ovation. The film is headed to the Lunenburg Doc Fest at the end of the month and we also have a distribution deal with Level Films and should see a theatrical release in the new year.
The film screens at the VIFF Centre from September 9 to 15. Oliv and other members of the cast will be attending the September 9 screening.
In terms of giving a shout out to other filmmakers, I’d just like to acknowledge the crew. In particular, Jessica Hallenbeck. There would be no film without her.
Anything else you want to say about the film or the Vancouver screenings?
A reviewer aptly described the film this way in a recent review on Letterboxd, “It’s a documentary. It’s a comedy. It’s a history lesson. It’s a party. It’s aggressively Vancouver, in all the right ways.”
I especially love that the film is a lot of fun! So many documentaries approach material in such a serious way. There’s a time and place for that, but I love that Oliv encouraged us to make the film entertaining. Go see it!
One of the challenges of telling Oliv’s story is that people forget how bad things were. We figured the best way to show this was to use archival footage. So ya, there’s a lot of really shitty behaviour on display in the film. There were a few minor re-edits that we had to make in order to secure access to footage, but in general we were able to get the footage we needed to tell the story.
What were the most surprising discoveries - positive or negative - in digging back into Vancouver's past from a queer-centric perspective? (How "untold" is this story, anyhow? Are there any other films you would like to give a nod to as precursors? I am aware of plenty of films about Vancouver in the 1980's, but I don't know any that touch on this history...?)
There were so many discoveries! For one, I had no idea Vancouver hosted the first official Pride Parade in Canada. I also had no idea the gay and lesbian community was largely responsible for getting Mike Harcourt elected in the 1981 municipal election.
In terms of the queer community, I learned that there were really deep divisions within the community at the time. It was disturbing to discover that there were open discussions about whether or not trans people should be included in the movement. There were also deep divisions between lesbians and gay men. These divisions still exist to some extent, but they were much more pronounced at the time.
I don't know how old you are or if you're from here originally - were you around for any of the things you document in the film, first hand...? What were your own experiences of homophobia "back then?" How did they impact you?
I’m 47. I wasn’t around for this period in Vancouver but I did experience plenty of homophobia when I came out in the early 90s and I was around to witness the horror that was the AIDS crisis. It’s hard for people to imagine the challenges that existed for queer people until recently. I’ve been profoundly impacted by these experiences and I’m in total awe of people like Oliv that survived, and even thrived in spite of these challenges.
I could see that Oliv's story would be quite inspiring - did you have any personal inspirational figures of your own that came to mind - "your own Oliv...?"
I’ve been inspired by friends and family meeting life’s challenges head on. I have friends who have had incredible life challenges and have somehow persevered.
I know in the 1970s and 80's there was a bit of an overlap between the Vancouver punk scenes and the queer scene in Vancouver - for example, on the homepage for the film, there's a John Barley's logo - a club on Cordova; I believe they were a club that functioned in both worlds...? (And I believe were later the location of one incarnation of the Cruel Elephant and even later, briefly, the Hindenburg). Is any of that in your film? (Any music, any punks...? Bill Scherk...?)
Absolutely! There was a lot of overlap. At least with Oliv there was. Some people even referred to Oliv as the “Punk Empress”. I wish there was more room in the film to cover the punk scene and the overlap between the queer and punk scene but in the end we just didn’t have the space to do so. It’s something Oliv talked about and it’s an important part of Vancouver’s history. There needs to be a whole other documentary about this.
Oliv actually reminds me of my straight, art-punk dandy friend Nathan Holiday, a bit, in that Nathan also cuts a very distinctive figure. Did you ever personally engage in any sort of outlandish costume? (I've almost always favoured very straight dress myself, have very little inclination to dress wildly, so - whether it's drag or punk - so I find myself a bit of a voyeur, an outsider when it comes to this kinda thing.... you?
Nathan Holiday by bev davies, taken at the VIFF Centre about ten years ago...? Not to be reused without permission...
I’ve never really utilized fashion and costume to express myself but I admire people who do. Oliv makes her own clothes and it’s a whole other language which I’m fascinated by. I feel like my thoughts and sense of humour are a bit out there, but I present as a pretty boring guy lol.
No worries, so do I, the odd Hawaiian shirt aside. So what’s Oraf’s involvement in the film? (he’s famed among local punks for taking the cover photo of the Subhumans’ Incorrect Thoughts, but I actually don’t know much else of Oraf’s work….
Oraf’s photography is an essential component of the film. His style of photography was way ahead of its time. It was illegal to photograph people in the bars in 1981, but Oraf had special permission to do so. As a result, the photos you see in the film are extremely rare. Oraf followed Oliv for a couple of years and photographed her almost every day. He’s still doing great work and I feel like he’s owed recognition. My business partner Jessica has been working with the queer archives in order to protect his work and ensure that it gets the exposure it deserves.
I gather the documentary has had some warm reception already, right? Will there be guests present at the VIFF screenings - for one night, all nights...? Are there any local institutions or filmmakers or scenes that you'd like to give a shout out to, who were particularly helpful in making the film?
I’m blown away by the reception of the film so far, especially considering the film was made on a micro-budget and is unapologetically Vancouver. The film was selected as the Opening Gala film at the Vancouver Queer Film Festival and sold out a week before the screening. At the gala, the film - and Oliv - received a 5 minute standing ovation. The film is headed to the Lunenburg Doc Fest at the end of the month and we also have a distribution deal with Level Films and should see a theatrical release in the new year.
The film screens at the VIFF Centre from September 9 to 15. Oliv and other members of the cast will be attending the September 9 screening.
In terms of giving a shout out to other filmmakers, I’d just like to acknowledge the crew. In particular, Jessica Hallenbeck. There would be no film without her.
Anything else you want to say about the film or the Vancouver screenings?
A reviewer aptly described the film this way in a recent review on Letterboxd, “It’s a documentary. It’s a comedy. It’s a history lesson. It’s a party. It’s aggressively Vancouver, in all the right ways.”
I especially love that the film is a lot of fun! So many documentaries approach material in such a serious way. There’s a time and place for that, but I love that Oliv encouraged us to make the film entertaining. Go see it!
The Empress of Vancouver opens September 9th at the VIFF Centre. Tickets on sale now! For more on the making of the film, see the CBC feature on Oliv. And note that The Empress of Vancouver is running pretty much concurrently at the VIFF Centre with Doug and the Slugs and Me, a rather different look into Vancouver in the 1980's; see my Montecristo feature interview with filmmaker Teresa Alfeld here.
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