Descendents in the Alleyway: Autograph Whore Tries for ALL (and Gets the Descendents).

Gerald would be proud of my committed autograph whoring tonight: I took a page from the ALL handbook and tried for ALL, and eventually, I was rewarded! 

It wasn't looking good. The production manager we pestered and the tour manager he pestered on our behalf (who we never directly met) were only able to get Stephen to come out, before the security guards started to really insist we leave. There were lots of guests backstage, we were told, and a lot of pressure to get the guys back across the border. On our way out, we did say hi to Brock Pytel (who I think was getting a shipment of merch for the September 20th LanaLou's show with Scott Reynolds and Greg Norton), but all he could do was suggest that maybe the guys would be hanging around outside afterwards...

I think he actually meant around the front of the venue, but when there was no one there, we actually pushed our luck, Adam and I, braved the alleyway, and LURKED OUTSIDE THE TOUR BUS and waited. Not making a fuss, just... trying for ALL  And the Descendents. Why not?

I don't usually do this kinda thing, folks, but I can see how it could become addictive, actually. Then I saw Karl through the window and when he glanced out, I made the universal hand gesture for "sign my rekkids" and to my delight and amazement, he came out! I jibbered at him as he stepped into the alleyway, "You wrote 'Educated Idiot!" I love that song!" And he thanked me and commented, "Not many people do." Karl signed everything he was on (actually he missed one but we got that sorted later).

Karl had mentioned it from the stage, but told us there in the alley about his two years in the Real McKenzies, which I did NOT know about before tonight. It wasn't too long ago, either! (He was in the band briefly in 2007 and then from 2009 to 2010). He was happy to be checking in with his Vancouver peeps. I had no idea about any of this (but I took no notes so I can't really do what he said justice). 

We asked Karl if he could get Bill to come out. Bill seemed intent on doing tour-bus things -- but Karl had said, "He'll come out," so we waited patiently. Maybe they would reward our tenacity? But even after we saw him tell Bill, we saw Bill making no moves towards the front of the bus. Hmm. 

As we milled about, Adam and I watched a small, very damaged looking rodent scraping its way along the alley, and stepped aside so some of the local DTES-types could plow past.  Someone else was going through the trash buckets. We watched Bill moving to and fro inside the tour bus somewhat forlornly and were saying things like, "I don't think he's going to come out." We were minutes away from packing up...

...when motherfucking MILO AUKERMAN HIMSELF came out the back door of the Commodore and headed for the bus, and I called out and he came over. He had stuff draped on one arm, but I held my records steady and proffered a Sharpie. As he signed stuff, somewhat weirdly, he and Adam had a conversation about Jewishness. Milo, for those curious, is not himself Jewish (Adam had thought he was and so asked), but has "great respect for people of the Jewish faith." 

It was actually a sweet thing for Milo to say. I think it's a tough time to be a Jew in the world right now. It's probably not anything *I* would have asked him about, but okay! I was more focused on the signatures not gotten (since they were my records), and asked Milo, "Do you think you can get Bill to sign them?"

"I have no idea where he is!"

"Oh, he's on the tour bus. Karl already asked him. I realize he's a bit shy, but now I've got almost everyone... it would mean a lot..." 

Milo reflected for a moment. "Actually, if I could bring your records onto the tour bus, you have a better chance."

"Sure!"

So MILO AUKERMAN, running an errand for fans,  did just as he suggested and proceeded to get Bill to sign the records inside the tour bus (and got Karl to do the one he missed). We watched it all happening as we stood there, with roadies loading the bus storage, glancing at us occasionally. We smiled back. I already had Chad Price on my Mass Nerder, which means I now have fully signed copies of the Descedents' ALL and ALL's Mass Nerder, and partially signed copies of a few other records (Enjoy, I fear, will only ever have Bill and Milo's signatures on it; hell, I don't even remember who the other guys are on that one!). Scott Reynolds is missing, but I hope to remedy that at LanaLou's next week. I bought my Pummel reissue after I saw Chad, but now I have a great reason to see him again if he comes to town. I assume I'm never going to get Dave Smalley!

People who are reading this and were delighted by tonight's show should realize that there are still tickets for former ALL vocalist Scott Reynolds' upcoming gig as part of the Greg Norton event Sept. 20th at LanaLou's. ALL is basically the Descendents with a different lead singer. Milo was wearing an ALL t-shirt tonight; Stephen and Karl and Bill are all also in ALL. You should "all" read my Scott Reynolds interview (part one of two) and listen to Scott's new album, recorded with Bill. It's great, and while the palette is richer and more creative than you'll see on the average ALL record, it's kind of in the same camp.... 

And of course, the Descendents were ALSO great tonight! But it was a marvelous treat to have met them (except Bill, but I've met him before and realize he's not much of an easy socializer; neither am I, actually. Don't go changin', Bill -- we love you just like you are).

Nothing to say about the photos below but this is what I got that was half-good, starting with them bringing Steve Diggle of the Buzzcocks out to pose for a photo with the audience behind them, which was at the beginning of the night. We whooped, cheered, threw the goats; you might see some familiar faces in the pics. It was the end of the tour, so the energy was really good. The Buzzcocks had also been really enjoyable (and Mattstagraham, too, though I liked the power-poppy one they did near the end the best). 

The setlist was almost the same as the previous night up until the end. "Catalina" and "Cheer" were swapped out for "Kabuki Girl" and I think "Hope" and.... I'm not sure what else. Milo threw a few barbs at the Trump regime (even inserted a "fuck Donald Trump" into one lyric, noting in the alley afterwards that people seemed to appreciate that sentiment; he joked about wanting to stay in Canada, at one point, as well). We ate it up. The pit for the Descendents was vibrant and happy and enthusiastic. I tried dancing a bit to "Van," which is the song I was most hoping to hear, but it's actually not all that easy to do! 

Anyhow, great night. Thanks to all the bands and the guys who helped with autograph collection. It's kind of hilarious that the person who helped us the most was Milo! 

Thanks, Milo! 

Pet Blessings and Gadfly open for Mudhoney and Excite Me More (Sorry, Mudhoney)

Mudhoney last night. None of my pictures were very good. 

It is time to fess up. I have never fully been able to get on the same page with Mudhoney. I have tried since 1989 and have ended up always wondering if I was doing something wrong. Nearly 40 years later, I'm going to let myself off the hook. 

I might piss off some Mudhoney fans with this post.

I remember listening to their debut LP when it came out in 1989 -- which I got on cassette; it came out during a brief window where I was buying more cassettes than vinyl, since they were cheaper to mailorder and I was buying direct from Sub/Pop. There was one song on it that I absolutely loved, the epic, neon-acid-glowing, loping-slow-march "Come to Mind" -- and a couple I liked, which had lyrics that I could connect with ("You Got It," "By Her Own Hand"); they didn't completely blow me over as songs but I felt at least like I met them where I was supposed to. And there was also one undeniable epic single ("Here Comes Sickness"), which is one of those accomplishments so great where it doesn't really matter if it's not your favourite song on the album, you have to acknowledge it regardless; they have a few songs like that, obviously, high-watermark hits, anthems that keep you hanging in there, y'know? There was a cool, singular guitar tone throughout (I like Steve Turner just fine!), but the rest of the album, the lyrics and songwriting just didn't do anything I could find a way to get into. I hesitate to call them bad, because there are OTHER revered bands I feel this way about like the fuckin' Ramones or the Melvins, too, where the few songs I really like are outnumbered, such that I always wonder if the problem is mine, like it's possible I'll hear them at some later date and go, "Oh yeah, I get it now"... but "This Gift," "Flat Out Fucked," and "Get Into Yours," say -- just didn't work for me, no matter what angle I listened to them from (high on weed, high on acid, drunk, sober, live, on my Walkman, on my crappy bedroom stereo...). They did "Get Into Yours" last night and more than anything else it actually reminded me vividly of just how little I liked the song when it first came out, because I still don't! The lyrics seem under-cooked and stoopid, the structures odd and "creative I guess"  but not at all catchy or compelling and maybe even a tad annoying, and the hooks just don't land, you know? It's like I was a fish watching a lure go by and not feeling compelled: "Is it just me? Am I supposed to be chasing that? It just doesn't seem like food." 

I loved all the other Sub/ Pop stuff I had at that point -- 1989 was a good year, because Nevermind hadn't fucked up the landscape yet! But compared to, say, God's Balls by TAD, which was the high watermark for me at that point, later to be replaced by 8 Way Santa -- the 1989 Mudhoney debut was a C+ record at best. 

I bought a couple other Mudhoney things after that, still, because I still wanted to dig'em and was kind of concealing that I didn't because I felt like it revealed some lack of coolness of my part. On Superfuzz Bigmuff, another album I had on cassette, I really dug "If I Think" (and that's it). I would dive off the grunge-train altogether after Nevermind, because I was traumatized by the underground having risen to the surface, but I would periodically find one of their albums thrifting or such and take it home and spin it... once. The song that worked best for me in the subsequent years was probably "Where Is the Future?" And I liked bits of other albums I heard, sometimes more for the witty lyrics than the music ("I Like It Small" is musically quirky -- I couldn't hum the tune for you now, even though it's one of my favourite latter-day Mudhoney songs -- but lyrically such a perfect statement of punk aesthetics that I climbed right on board). 

But I never fully invested. There would be other frustrations, too, where I'd find myself not on the same page in other ways with the band. Like, the song I love the most off their 1989 release is the one they have always left off the vinyl, for example! Or Steve Turner and I have talked twice about "Where Is the Future?" and I've tried to convince him it's great, but he tells me that the band just doesn't care much about that album now (Under a Billion Suns). Aww! 

I have now seen them four times live: at the Commodore, paired with Nirvana, on October 30th, 1991, where I came away saying Mudhoney was the better band; Kurt had a kind of really weird, dark, negative energy that night, especially during a punishing "Endless, Nameless" where I think a guitar mighta got smashed? I also saw them open for the Flesheaters in Seattle (which I also enjoyed, especially since "Where Is the Future?" was on the setlist that night) and twice at the Rickshaw, now. 

I stuck it out as long as I could -- longer than their previous Rickshaw show -- but I left early. 

The problem is doubtlessly mine. There was a happy moshpit, a packed house, and people seemed to be enjoying themselves, but a) I only knew about half the songs; b) they don't play my favourites; c) and of the songs I knew, only a few of them were ones I love ("Touch Me I'm Sick," "If I Think"). 

I feel like I can finally stop blaming myself, in any event. I'm glad they're around and still selling out shows. I'm glad they enjoyed being at the Rickshaw (Mark at one point quipped about how it was heartwarming to see that it hasn't changed since they were last here). I still respect them and I'll probably even read that Steve Turner memoir someday (haven't, yet, but it's on the shelf!). But I heretofore absolve myself of "trying" to like Mudhoney more than I actually do.  

That is not to say I have any regrets about going last night, but for me, the excitement was that Pet Blessings and Gadfly got to play a high-profile show to a packed Rickshaw and show off their stuff to a bunch of people who haven't seen them before. Both bands had commitment, energy, and fire in their performances, and Emilor and Homa, the band's respective leaders, were extremely compelling -- Emilor in a more outgoing, extroverted way (tho' it seemed like Homa leaped into the pit to mosh for a bit near the end of their set!). Emilor had brought out her riot grrl side (which either I hadn't seen before, or hadn't fully noticed/ appreciated), which really really suited her -- there was a vibe of pissed-off punk feminism to her presentation that I'm going to be much more attentive to, starting with their new EP. I would have bought a t-shirt, but there were none in my size. I also shot a clip, though at this point cannot tell you what the song was. It might even be two songs? 

And Gadfly finally got a third member again! Homa can go way farther into her solos with someone to play off, so I'm real happy about that. I had this intuition that they would open with one of their heavier, catchier "stoner" numbers like "Spine Stabber" and while I am not 100% sure what the song was, that's exactly what they did, a stoner epic with a notable Middle Eastern vibe to it (vid here). It just cooked, and was a fine start to their charismatic, kickass set. 

Is "I'm a Happy Go-Lucky Ray of Fucking Sunshine" a line from a movie or a song or something? Good shirt! 

Like Pet Blessings, sadly, Gadfly had no physical media and no shirts that fit. They do have a very considerable bandcamp, however! Another local band I am happy to see live any time I can.

Besides that, I also enjoyed realizing that for "Touch Me I'm Sick," by accident, I was standing right behind Betty Bathory, whose band Daddy Issues do a cover of that song with a level of theatrical realia that blows Mudhoney away, with stage props so vulgar that the clip I posted on Youtube got censored/ taken down, and my appeal denied. While I was down there, I shot video of Mudhoney doing "Let It Slide," and the hair that keeps bopping up into the frame is Betty's, but my energy was actually fading pretty fast by that point. Din't even try to get my rekkids signed.  

Anyhow, one more concert tonight, then I get a few days off. Hey, have you read my Descendents-related Scott Reynolds interview yet? Part one of two. There are still face-value tickets for the Descendents tonight! And the Greg Norton and Buddies set with Scott opening (and the SLIP~ons). Don't snooze on that -- it's an epic bill and will sell out for sure; LanaLou's is a pretty small venue!!!

Scott Reynolds Part One! Attention ALL and Descendents fans

Talked to Scott Reynolds of ALL, mostly about his amazing new solo album recorded with Bill of the Descendents. It ended up having a bit of formatting weirdness to it (quotes within quotes within quotes!), but just play past it, okay? Go for the content, you'll figure out who is saying what.  

If you're wondering what the Zappa poster looks like, here's a small screengrab of Scott during the Zoom call! More to come next week, before the Scott Reynolds show at LanaLou's, but it was important to get this into the world, part one anyhow, before the Descendents played... Tickets are still available, and 1/3 or Husker Du is gonna be there, too, doing Du songs!

Seeya Sunday, Descendents! (Tickets still available for that, too). 

The complete Chad Price interview: of ALL, the Descendents, the Chad Price Peace Coalition and more (with a debt to Brock Pytel)

Chad Price and Brock Pytel outside LanaLou's, April 2025, photos by me

In April of 2025, former ALL vocalist Chad Price brought his newest band to town, the Chad Price Peace Coalition, who played a momentous set at LanaLou's, also with the SLIP~ons on the bill. I did an email interview with Price before the show, for advance press purposes, but later, better, outside LanaLou's, I spoke to the man in person, and fleshed out that interview for the German publication Ox Fanzine. 

That full interview has never appeared in English until now. 

With the Descendents about to play two shows in Vancouver -- there are added tickets for Sunday, note -- and one tonight in Victoria (Rifflandia) and with ALL's previous vocalist, Scott Reynolds, about to play LanaLou's on the bill with Hüsker Dü's Greg Norton (Sept. 20th, tickets still available for that too, unbelievably -- I'm told by Brock it's 85% sold), it seems a perfect time to make the English-language version of the story available. There are references to a festival in Tillsonburg that has already taken place, but call the upcoming September 20th gig "Tillsonburg West." The title was actually the idea of my editor, Joachim Hiller. What you read below is how I represented our scene to the Germans (though they may have edited out some of the Vancouver content: I can't read German, so how would I know?).

More to come on Scott Reynolds, and maybe a bit more about Greg Norton and the SLIP~ons, too (because Brock Pytel is a key ingredient in making these LanaLou's shows happen), but in the meantime, you'll be the first people outside the German-speaking world to read this story! Yay!

Chad Price: Is that ALL?

By Allan MacInnis

Sometimes interviews come by circuitous means. Brock Pytel, of the Vancouver band the SLIP~ons, had been tasked to help promote a show his band was playing in that city, headlined by the Chad Price Peace Coalition, who were advance-touring their 2025 album A Perfect Pearl. Pytel, whom I have interviewed before, contacted me for local press. Price – the third lead singer for Descendents spin-off band ALL, as well as the leader of roots music band Drag the River and prog-metal band A Vulture Wake, originally knew Pytel as the lead vocalist/ drummer for Montreal punk band the Doughboys; Pytel had left the band after their 1987 debut album, Whatever, but before that had shared bills with ALL (during the Dave Smalley years), and toured the US, including a show that a pre-ALL Price saw, in Lawrence, Kansas. It wasn’t until years later that the two men [Pytel and Price] met, possibly in Boston. Pytel explains, “I remember telling him I was a big fan and loved the way he sang to which he replied, he’d been inspired to sing that way by me. That’s the kind of gentleman he has always been."

The two hadn’t stayed in touch over the years, but as fate would have it, are going to be sharing a bill again this summer, at a rather stacked festival lineup in Tillsonburg, Ontario – a town first made famous by a goofy Stompin’ Tom Connors song (also see D.O.A’s “It Was D.O.A.” and Mr. Plow’s “D.O.A” for more [but don't ask me to explain who exactly is plagiarizing who]).

Taking place in July, Büddies Fest will have a headlining spot for ALL, with Price singing, but also feature both Drag the River and the Chad Price Peace Coalition. It will also involve Greg Norton of Hüsker Dü (Pytel hints that he may have been asked to sing a couple of Grant Hart tunes for that). Weirdly, another former member of ALL, Scott Reynolds – the vocalist between Dave Smalley and Chad Price – will also be performing the same festival, though as you will see, there was no word at press time whether Reynolds and Price would sing together. Seems like there will be ample opportunity! [Note: in fact, Scott fronted a second show by ALL!]

Some of this interview – conducted by email – appeared previously on my blog, Alienated in Vancouver, but the bulk of it took place outside Vancouver’s “rock ‘n roll eatery” LanaLou’s, with James Farwell of Bison at one point – a buddy of Pytel’s, who had simply come to see the show – popping outside for a smoke and effusively thanking Price for his contributions to his youth (he’s a huge fan of both ALL and the Descendents). A random smoking stranger also interjected himself at one point – a friend of someone named Ivan Rivers, also playing the festival – and they laughed about how ridiculous it is to have a festival of this caliber in an obscure Ontario town (“What the fuck is this doing here?” Chad joked. Turns out he knows the Stompin’ Tom song!).

Afterwards, at the LanaLou’s show, the SLIP~ons did as they do, channeling the ramshackle, passionate spirit of classic Minneapolis punk – with Pytel sporting a Hüskee Düde t-shirt, the name of a local Huskers cover band. Meanwhile, the Chad Price Peace Coalition played songs that contained both roots and prog influences, but very little in the way of punk. Video evidence exists (of the SLIP~ons doing “Nothing Is Good Enough” and the Chad Price Peace Coalition doing “Tongue,” both as shot by the author; you’ll also see D. Ballantyne, the photographer who took the photos for this article, hard at work taking them, and you might spot local producer Jesse Gander in an Alien Boys t-shirt; his band the Uptights also played).

So do I assume that you’re from Lawrence, Kansas, where you first played with ALL…?

Well, I’m from Kansas City, Missouri, but it’s 45 minutes away. Lawrence is where I went to shows, as a teenager. But my first gig singing with them was in Lawrence, at the Outhouse. It was before Breaking Things came out, and I think we played under the name Breaking Things, probably. I don’t know why didn’t just use ALL – maybe to take the pressure off of me, because I hadn’t played a show with them yet. But then we opened up for FEAR, so my first show was fucking packed. My first show was played to however many people you can cram in there, I dunno – four or five hundred people?

Had you been to shows at the Outhouse before that?

That’s where I went to shows as a teenager. I saw ALL and Doughboys there, I saw Bad Brains, I saw Cro-Mags. I saw, fuck… dozens… Hüsker Dü… That’s where the all-ages shows went, so that’s where we had to go. But if you don’t know where it’s at, and you basically have to ask somebody, and they’ll point you down this gravel road. It’s five miles down this gravel road, and it’s little just a cinderblock building in the middle of the cornfield. It’s crazy. Anything fucking goes, out there. It got scary at times. A lot of skinheads would show up at some of these punk shows. But those were my teenage years.

Since you’re crossing paths with Greg at Büddies, do you have any Dü stories?

Uh, not really. I mean, I was a fan; as a youngster, and I saw them a couple of times in Kansas City, growing up. But then I recently just met Greg, because of this Büddies thing he’s doing.

So is Scott Reynolds just doing something solo, or are you going to do something with him?

As far as I know, the ALL show is just me singing, but that was before I knew that Scott was going to be there. I haven’t talked to Bill, since, but I would assume they have at least spoken, Bill and Scott. So I wouldn’t be surprised if Scott did at least a handful of songs. I mean, everybody is on good terms, there’s nothing weird with anyone.

But we play once, maybe twice every two years, like one of these festivals. Normally the Descendents are playing and they know they can get one more band by flying one more person there.

It's smart. Like, you’re in three bands at Büddies.

Yeah. “I fly one guy in and I’ve got three different acts.” It’s going to be fun.

Were you making music before you joined ALL? How old were you, and what were the circumstances of connecting with them?

Back when ALL was planning their move to Missouri from California I met Bill through a friend who had booked the band. We remained friends and my band at the time hung out with the guys and played barn parties together and shit like that. When Scott decided to quit, Bill hit me up and asked if I was interested. Of course I was, because ALL was my favorite band on the planet. He sent me some demos to check out and I drove out to Brookfield and recorded a couple songs. He then flew to L.A. to try others out. I got the job.

Curious about working with Bill! As I was telling Brock, my one interaction with him (gushing fanboy stuff at him after an ALL show here, with Scott Reynolds fronting the band) was cut very short: he had to get to the washroom and just didn't much seem to be into hearing me blurt how much I loved his songs -- it was like, "uh, thanks... I gotta pee," an indifferent mumble... Brock tells me he does warm up!

Hahaha that sounds correct. Yes he does warm up but he’s not one for small talk. I’m not either so we often sit in silence together. Seriously though he’s a trip and a blast to talk to when you get to know each other.

Bill has some really great pop lyrics, some terrific couplets. Curious you have favourite lyrics by him, that you were listening to before you joined?

One of the main reasons I liked ALL to begin with is Bill’s lyrical approach, about how blunt he is about things. My favourite shit is “Scary Sad” and, like, “Net,|” off Allroy’s Revenge. When I joined ALL, they were my favourite band, so it was crazy to be asked… and I didn’t just get the gig, I tried out! They were my favourite band, and how it worked out was just nuts.

There are clearly some very progressive, even math-y influences in some of ALL’s songwriting, like with “Educated Idiot,” before you joined the band, and now you’re making music with progressive influences. Was the prog element of ALL your gateway into prog in general?

For the most part, yes. I mean, I have an older brother and sister, so when I was growing up, obviously I heard Yes and Jethro Tull and that kind of prog, “classic rock” prog. I mean, Jethro Tull to this day is probably still my all-time favourite band. But not as much when I was young, though. Like, when I was a teenager, I listened to it, heard it on the radio and liked it fine. But then getting into ALL, that, as far as like a heavier band, a fucking rock band or a punk band, yes, that was the first band like that I kind of experienced. And really, the reason I like ALL more than the Descendents is, when Stephen [Egerton] and Karl [Alvarez] joined the band, they took it in that direction. They both grew up listening to the Mahavishnu Orchestra, all kinds of crazy shit, or Jeff Beck. The Descendents’ ALL record is when they started going in that direction.

There was a bit of proggishness on Enjoy.

A little bit, yeah, but Stephen and Karl, I’d call more traditionally prog. But there was a lot of crazy stuff on Enjoy.

Punctuated by farts.

Yeah.

It seems kind of ballsy for A Vulture Wake, as a band with prog roots to title a song “Red,” Somehow I think it's commenting on American politics, but I can't pick out the lyrics... a dying clown?

No King Crimson connection there. You are correct in your American politics assessment. It was the fuel for the whole record. Drowning in red seas.

About the song "The Fool Must Be Killed,” I have some suspicions who the fool there must be, but...?

You know exactly who the fool is and the song is more relevant than ever now.

Aha. Indeed. If I can ask -- are you, as an American, doing okay? The mood up here is not good re: America right now. I was going to post the Exploited's "U.S.A.” on Facebook apropos of the tariffs but then I thought, "Wait, I have LOTS OF AMERICAN FRIENDS..." Then a local punk band, Death Sentence, covered it [actually that happened at LanaLou’s too, and yes, is on Youtube].

It’s so fucked up and I’m still shocked at how many were/are so easily duped by an obvious conman. Just so fucking despicable. I know the majority of Americans are not with this orange clown but the right wing is so loud and dumb that it sure seems like they outnumber us.

Explain the band name A Vulture Wake to me? I'm curious if you named the band after the practice of Sky Burials.

A vulture wake is a group of vultures feeding. I thought it was an appropriate name and very cool sounding as well.

So if we can shift to Drag the River, what was your gateway into roots music?

All my shit came from my older brother and sister. As far as country music goes, I would say Hank Williams Junior, because that was the shit my brother listened to. So as far as real country music like that, Hank Williams Junior is definitely my in… but then later on, I realized that a lot of Hank Jr. is pretty shitty. He was kind of, like, the worst of it, except for his few hits, which were pretty good. Later on, I picked up on people in relationship to him, like Merle Haggard and Buck Owens and all that stuff. But I didn’t love it; it was just shit I heard – I didn’t love it until I was in my early 20s.

I know this is something that comes up in “Uncle Critic,” but some people have called Bill’s lyrics homophobic. And I mean, “Hetero” is a fun song, but…

It hasn’t aged well.

And Milo doesn’t do “I’m Not a Loser,” or changes it, so…

He changes some words. But I mean, some of those songs, in the moment it seemed like a good punk rock song, but when we started touring, for the record, we realized that “Hetero” is not some great song. I mean, we did play it live, but probably for one tour, but it’s been forgotten.

I mean, FEAR were just here. They aren’t changing their lyrics so much: “Give guns to the queers,” and so forth. Lee doesn’t apologize for it.

Fuck it, he’s old, he can do what the fuck he wants.

But I like that you don’t do that.

Yeah. If it’s going to hurt someone, we’re not going to do it. And it’s very far from being a great song; there’s no reason to keep it around.

I gather there's some crossover between ALL and [Chad's subsequent band] Drag the River -- that a song you wrote on Mass Nerder, “Until I Say So,” was originally written as a Drag the River song, and eventually even got recorded as one? How did that happen? Do you do other ALL songs, or A Vulture Wake songs, in your set these days?

Any song I would write I would run by everyone. I would write everything on acoustic so even if it was meant for ALL it sounded more acoustic based. If anyone liked a song we would figure out how to make it an ALL song no matter how simple the tune. These days I focus on my solo songs live but we’ll work in some fun surprises in the future.

Tell me about bringing songs to ALL? That must have been somewhat intimidating, if you were already a fan!

I was barely a guitar player but I tried to emulate the ALL sound anyway. The only pre-ALL song I had written that remained was “Original Me.” The guitar riff is basically exactly what I wrote but when the three of them play the song it turns into an ALL song. And yes every time I ever showed a song to them it was intimidating. I was just a kid only beginning to write.

Curious if you have a Milo story? I saw him with the Descendents a few years ago, and he had what I was told was some sort of hydration unit strapped to his back, under his shirt, which made him look like he had a really square hunched back. I've never seen anyone perform in a getup like that and I think if I were going to wear a backpack live I would go with the "outside the shirt" look, rather than the "what's wrong with his back" look! It seemed kind of quirky behaviour.

He’s your basic nerd hahaha. He’s very kind and fairly normal. I met him when he did back up vocals on Breaking Things.

So what was your greatest moment with ALL?

I got to do some very cool things for sure that I’ve taken for granted. I mean I played a song on the Conan O’Brien show and got put up in a fancy New York hotel room and rode in a limo and shit like that. Crazy stuff I never expected to happen. One great moment was when we had a sold out show at City Gardens in Jersey and I had zero voice. Bill called Milo to come sing instead of cancelling so I got to stand in the crowd and see Descendents for the first time.

I know ALL played Germany, but did you? [Again, this ran in a German magazine]

I have played Germany. I know it seems like I’ve been in ALL for a long time, but it was really so short. We got to Europe three, maybe four times, during my stint in the band. I had been to Germany a handful of other times, by myself and with Drag the River. I love it over there. Germany’s always appreciative of music, it seems like. It seems like that’s kind of common knowledge. But I don’t have specific stories. Some of the most fun stories I have are, after playing a show, we would just stop in some tiny little German village and just go to one of the bars and drink with the locals all night. There’s always a language barrier! You might run into one or two people who speak English, but other than that, it’s just dealing with people you can’t really talk to.

Alcohol helps!

Alcohol definitely helps. But those were some of the most fun days of my life.

So coming forward in your history a bit, what is One Week Record? It is not actually a Peace Coalition record? It seems very roots-oriented. Was it made separately from -- at a different time from -- A Perfect Pearl? Do you do songs from it in your current set?

A few years ago I put out a record on Joey Cape’s (Lagwagon) label One Week Records. It’s named this because artists spend a week at Joey’s house recording a record. It’s usually a stripped down acoustic record and the label model was a subscription that you bought to listen to the catalog. They wanted to release my full band record even though I didn’t record with Joey and I asked that vinyl was made, which they had never done. When it got a physical release it somehow became titled One Week Record which is idiotic, ha ha ha ha. It’s a Chad Price record but Chad Price Peace Coalition is just Chad Price with a full band. Our live set focuses on this record and the new record A Perfect Pearl.

Aha. Okay, tell me about the title A Perfect Pearl? Again, there's some chutzpah in that title -- I think somehow of Big Thief calling their first album Masterpiece, though they undercut that quite a bit with an image of kids playing on the cover...

The title is a tribute to my little girl dog Pearl who we had to let go after I got home from recording.

Oh, man, sorry to hear. What kind of dog was Pearl?

She was a little Cocker-beagle girl. She had the Beagle temperament; she was real fun and playful. But she got cancer; she had a huge lump in her throat. She was 13, you know. Shit happens.

I haven’t really taken the time to puzzle over what the songs I’ve heard are about, but there are some environmentally sensitive moments in “A.M.” and “Rose,” the lead singles. “Long walks through forest fires” is a nice image, but… is there an environmental politic to the album?

No! I mean, speaking of A Vulture Wake, it was a political band. We grew out of fucking Trump, you know what I mean? That’s where that band really came from. But I wanted to do something different for A Perfect Pearl. This music is not heavy and ugly; I wanted to bring a different vibe to it. So I feel like writing these lyrics, I didn’t really write about anything; it was just more the sound of the words. There are a couple of story-songs on the record, but for the most part, it’s just words; I make sure that they make some sense.

Do you have a favourite?

One of my favourites is the opener on the record, called “Fawn.” It’s just real slow and spacy. It sounds like Pink Floyd or something. It’s so beautiful and it’s so fun to play and it’s totally foreign to the shit that I normally play. So that one’s kind of exciting. But I love the whole record.

Given that you went from ALL to country music to prog metal, with a few stops in between, I wonder if the band name the Chad Price Peace Coalition is meant as an in-joke, that you're uniting all these genres in harmony -- a coalition of your musical influences?

I didn’t think of it in that way but that’s exactly where I’m heading. I don’t want to be confined to a genre because I like a lot of different things.

 

Chad has come and gone, but tickets to see Scott Reynolds (along with Greg Norton and the SLIP~ons are still available, here, and there are still tickets on sale for the Descendents this Sunday, with the Buzzcocks opening! More to come on the Scott Reynolds gig... as soon as I transcribe the interview!!!

Sunday! Car Free Day on Main -- bands at Red Cat and Neptoon!

Charlie Kirk shooter in custody: false flags and violence

Just posted this on FB and so I might as well make a record of it here, as well:

There's a lesson about the efficacy of violence here -- what it accomplishes and how. Not that I place any value on that vile hatemonger at all. No tears being shed. But I want to think through something and invite others to come with me. This is NOT a "conspiracy theory" post, but we have to tread through that zone to get where we're going. 

People are saying already about the Kirk shooting that it is a false flag (AI overview: "a deceptive action intended to conceal the true perpetrator and misdirect blame toward another party, making it appear as if an opposing group or country is responsible for a harmful event"). This is the logic behind a lot of conspiracy theory -- that, for example, the US was responsible for 9/11, to give it an excuse to go to war; that forces on the right staged the Trump assassination attempt to rally support for him, make him seem heroic; that Hamas was secretly controlled by Netanyahu and that the October 7 attacks were designed to justify the "final solution" of the Palestinian problem (now ongoing; I mean, the Israeli reaction WAS kind of predictable, eh?). All of these are things I've heard said or implied in those cases, and now I'm hearing similar things about the Kirk shooting. It's a kind of "cui bono" argument ("whose benefit?"), by which the people who benefit from an action are probably the ones responsible for it. I've seen it said by a few friends now, implying that the right will now use the Kirk shooting to intensify their dismantling of rights in the US, to intensify their campaign, to make him a rallying point, a martyr (a word Trump and Turning Point USA wasted NO TIME in using -- Kirk's group have said, "Charlie has become America's greatest martyr to the freedom of speech he so adored").

Sure, that might just be opportunists making the most of things, but let's think through the implication: that shooting Kirk is not going to lead to the Project 2025 Republican hatemongers seeing the error of their ways. It's going to actually BENEFIT THE RIGHT. Regardless of who actually did it -- they seem to have him in custody now, turned in by his father, according to the news -- the MAGA folk are going to try to use it to advance their crackdown on transfolks, gays, immigrants, leftists.

If the people who stand to benefit from political violence are the people who are the target of it... which is fundamental to the idea behind any false flag operation... that seems to be a very good argument for NONVIOLENCE as a strategy. If by engaging in violence you're actually benefiting your opponents, giving them a pretext... why the hell would you want to do that? Unless you INTEND to bring wrath and destruction onto your side ("the war of the flea," etc -- I would hope what's happened in Gaza since Oct. 7 leads to that particular strategy being struck from the playbook forevermore). attacking an organized, powerful enemy that can respond with even worse violence is a BAD IDEA, unless your intention is to provoke that reaction. Moderates do NOT benefit from extremist action.

I do not know whether or not the Kirk shooting was a false flag... but it's scary that people can actually, at least somewhat rationally, claim that. They realize that things are about to get much worse in the United States as a result. Even if it wasn't a false flag, it might as well have been. The most extreme voices, the most vicious ideologues, will try to use Kirk's death as a rallying cry, to stir up even more hatred. Whoever the shooter is, whatever motivated him -- he might as well have been a pro-Trumper. Because that's the side that is going to benefit.

Shedding no tears for Charlie Kirk, but -- MEMO TO THE SHOOTER-- you're getting no thanks from me for this. Whatever you thought you were accomplishing, the reality is, you've made things so much worse for everyone in the US with this action. What comes next is YOUR FAULT. If you're actually a person of the left, you're an idiot. If you actually thought you were going to help with the mess that America is in, with this: you didn't. Watch what happens next. It's on your hands.

Viagra Boys live at Malkin Bowl - I get in and I get it

I wasn't expecting to be offered a ticket to the Viagra Boys last night. I barely know them -- have been curious for awhile, but haven't had the right opportunity to check them out, have just peeked at things on the internet now and then, or picked up their albums and contemplated them in the store: "Hm, that's one hell of a cover, who is that?" But for every apparent reason to invest attention in the band, especially visible in their clever rock videos, there have been songs that didn't entirely connect, for me, so I have held back. I mean, new enthusiasms for me can be dangerous: I am not actively soliciting new bands to care about, you know? There is already more on my plate than I'm ever going to be able to eat. 

"Research Chemicals" -- last night's main set closer, which lasted something like 12 minutes -- is the one that connected right off the bat. Don't know what it says about me that it spoke to me instantly (never did have nosebleeds in the shower), but it's hilarious and brilliant and one hell of a song -- it caught with me easily, sunk a hook and stuck -- but other songs of theirs have eluded me: "Sports," for instance. I'm not sure I get the point! There's a complex, minimalistically absurdist humour at work in that song, levels of irony, mockery, disdain (I think), maybe even deliberate idiocy -- the song is itself as idiotic as the idiocy it has disdain for -- so much so that when the entire audience at Malkin Bowl was jumping up and down singing along (the song before the main set closer), I began to wonder if we too -- rock audiences -- were included among the band's targets ("do the dance/ down on the beach," or in our case, down in the park). But seeing wit and intelligence at work is not entirely the same as "getting the joke," and getting the joke is not necessarily the same thing as finding it funny. And it just wasn't very exciting musically to me, though seeing a large crowd bouncing up and down to it kinda helped on that end: it sure generated a lot of excitement!

So thanks to a free ticket, last night I finally got the joke, and got my first Viagra Boys album, and got a heaping handful of new Viagra Boys songs to delight in: "Troglodyte," prefaced with a dedication to the people of Palestine; "Store Policy," "Medicine for Horses," "Worms"...guess it's better to be late to the party than not to arrive. I've remarked before, about checking out bands like the Sleaford Mods (who still haven't quite hooked me in) and IDLES (who I like best of the three), that people tend to stick to their own demographics a bit, as they age -- that it's more likely that a cool 20-something will check out the music of their forbearers than a cool 60-year-old (I'm 57; fuck!) will check out the music of the cool 20-somethings -- but, well, there I was, the codger in the crowd again, but very happy to be there. I missed a few songs -- and think that the person who I offered my other ticket to might have had a few drinks or such in him when he accepted the ticket; I doubt he actually made it to the show! -- but by damn I had a fun time with the songs I saw. And a friend who has seen them before said it was their best-ever concert, so -- it was a great way to be converted. 

Ironically, the video I shot is of one of the songs I don't entirely get -- "The Bog Body," the encore. But maybe someone else can explain it to me. This is about a woman being jealous of how well preserved a corpse is? Or about a man being disdainful of the woman for being jealous? 

The line about the difference between a bog and a swamp is kind of hilarious, though, in terms of "things you don't expect to hear expressed in song." Is he making fun of an insensitive dude mansplaining to his partner, while also making fun of her? But that's the vid I shot, so that's the one I'm sharing. I won't be goin' again tonight (even if I get offered another free ticket -- I'm wiped out from too much concertgoing and have other things to do!). But if you haven't seen the Viagra Boys, and are a fast study, this is a terrific band. Very funny, and you can bounce up and down and be part of the crowd, if you're so inclined. Their videos are really great calling cards, but a live show is even better.

So thanks for the ticket! It was fun! 

Orcutt Shelley Miller live at the Rickshaw, plus Nomeansno's "The Tower" identified!!!

All photos, such as they are, by me!

It's funny: if you go see Lee Ranaldo, there are no Sonic Youth songs. Go see Thurston: no Sonic Youth songs. Go see Kim and, as far as I know, no Sonic Youth songs (I couldn't make her solo show here but I peeked at the setlist after). 

But go see Steve Shelley... and guess what? Orcutt Shelley Miller opened their set last night with an instrumental version of "Star Power." Wow! (But that's just the official video; I didn't record them doing it). 

Took me about two seconds to note that it was familiar and three more to realize what they were doing and there was this little explosion of joy in me. Thanks, guys, that meant something! 

Steve sure seemed to be enjoying himself. Don't think I've seen a drummer smile so much while playing -- he was having so much fun. Nice guys, all three, and holy shit, what playing. Orcutt's fingers fly around that fretboard in fascinating ways, and Ethan got in on the improvs, too. Didn't realize til I looked at my videos after ("An LA Funeral," "A Long Island Wedding") that he plays with a pick. 

I do hope they record their version of "Star Power." These songs should not be AWOL forevermore from the repertoire of the artists who originally recorded them (it's off Evol, Shelley's first album with the band).  

After Kneejerk's jazzy, challenging-but-engaging opening set, Tim Reinert introduced Orcutt Shelley Miller  with a fun bit of wit, saying he was going to answer a question that he'd been asked multiple times that evening already: "The answer is yes... that is the same amp." 

If you were around for Bill Orcutt's solo show at the Pearl last month, you laughed. Bill explained after the show to me that he'd just gotten it fixed - a power tube had blown. 

Terrific night. I was kind of happy that Tim had seats out in the venue, but also kind of sad, because some of what Orcutt Shelley Miller did was definitely danceable, especially "Four-door Charger" (just a link to the bandcamp, there, too; didn't shoot it). Some of us danced in our seats. It's a bit weird, but it works. 

At least three members of Earth Ball (Earthball -- I have forgotten Jeremy's preferred version now) and two members of Shearing Pinx were in the audience (and yes, these groups overlap). Izzy was the most interactive and enthusiastic, calling out at one point, "Did you guys go see Neil Young?" (They did not).

She also got excited when Bill announced that a song was called "A Long Island Wedding" because she heard the word "island." "Are you coming to the island? Come to Nanaimo!" (She's based in Nanaimo. I have explained this to the guys and said they should play the Vault, but it won't be this tour). 

Word to Tim: get Earthball to open for a show sometime! 

I was happy to hear in the post-show chatting that the guys enjoyed the Indian restaurant I recommended. I had given them directions to avoid the other side of the street, near the Carnegie, which always had seemed a bit rougher to me, but there's been a shift since I last hit the Rickshaw -- the half-block on Hastings between Main and the Rickshaw is now absolutely packed with people, many in real rough shape, though also many running a busy sidewalk market. I was a bit startled, haven't seen that half-block so packed before. I wonder if the guys' cities have similar places? Seattle sure doesn't. Is our fentanyl problem generally worse than other cities? Has anyone read Sam Cooper?  

Suffice to say, any touring bands playing the Rickshaw who want to eat in the neighbourhood, there's a good Indian place on Pender and Main, next to the CIBC, but you may have to walk past many people who seem dead or who are living in conditions of extreme misery and poverty. It seems to have gotten worse since the last time I was in the neighbourhood. Maybe it's just because it's summer -- people are happier being outside? Maybe they actually manage to sell some stuff to Rickshaw attendees? 

In any case, if it's complicated outside, the vibe was awesome once you got inside the venue. Nice to see John Werner there (introduced him to Ethan: "This guy plays in the Pack with Kirk Brandon!"), said hi to a few other people I knew (ARGH!!, Jeanette,  Elliott, Mo). You're right, John: I wrote a review! Can't help myself, wish I could. 

Dumb: the only time I saw Elliott (of the Rebel Spell, Freak Dream and formerly the SSRIs), we were taking a piss. He started just after I did, and was still there with his dick in the urinal when I said, "Hey, Elliott!"

For our entire conversation, he was peeing. Sho ga nai, ne? Hope he dug the show! 

Having remarked on Ethan's Wrong t-shirt in my previous post, I shouldn't have been surprised when Nomeansno came up when I chatted with him after: Ethan wanted to know if there were any actual physical landmarks that informed Nomeansno's "The Tower." I always just sort of thought, "Tarot by way of the Eye of Sauron," but he wondered if Susto Tower in San Francisco might have been on Rob's mind. I said I doubted it, but would investigate. 

I mean, if the moon is in the right place, it is pretty "Eye of Sauron," eh? It's one evil-lookin' tower, even comes with a trident!

Turns out I didn't even have to bug John Wright (currently on tour) to get the answer. The guys on the Nomeansno: We're So Wright It's Wrong Facebook group immediately pointed out that indeed there IS a physical inspiration: the Smith Hill reservoir telecommunications tower in Summit Park. It's really not that impressive unless you shoot it in the right light, but apparently Rob Wright has confirmed this on the NoMeansNo Thing Podcast. 

I am thinking since it's a private group, I can't just share a link to the conversation, so I'll steal some of that. Miloš Svirčev (I think involved in the podcast?), seeing my question, shared an old post by Victoria group member Tyler Hodgins with a photo of the Tower, and (definite podcaster) Jordon Flato elaborated:

We do a little podcast about Nomeansno, called NoMeansNo Thing Podcast where we deep dive into all of the songs (ostensibly to find the 'very best one' even though there is no such thing) and some time ago one of our hosts, who is also a Victorian, made this connection with the song. And then in our interview with Rob of a year or so ago, he confirmed this was indeed THE Tower. Sounds like being a hometown boy you already knew this! You should check out the podcast though, if you're a fan, you'd probably dig it!

It's funny -- I thought I knew the answer to the question, which kept me from realizing that I didn't -- another way in which "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing." So thanks for Ethan Miller helping educate me here! 

(Dead Bob just played Germany for the first time the other night, by the way. My editor at Ox says it was awesome: "I don't need Nomeansno back: Dead Bob are just as good!"). Yaaah!

Coming back to Orcutt Shelley Miller, and speaking of t-shirts, the design for their band shirt was fun... but I better not say more! Stuff has been, how did SY put it, "jacked from the matrix" again (a phrase they used before the Wachowskis had made a single movie, note). But it was kinda fitting that when I got Steve to sign my Sister afterwards, he immediately went for the black space on the front where the mutated Disney image used to be. Which is exactly where I was in the process of pointing. 

I wish I still had one of those original covers, but the black space hurts less with his signature in it. 

I did tease one more Crucifucks question out of Steve, asking him to resolve a long-standing dispute. I don't think anyone will be interviewing 26 anytime soon, so this will have to do: was "Oh Where, Oh Where?" written about a lost hit of acid?

"I think it was, yeah."

"Damn, I liked it better as just a missing piece of paper." (Any time I've lost an important piece of paper, it's the song that comes to mind). 

He said something like "I do, too" or "Me too" in response. Nothing wrong with a hit of acid, mind you, it's just funnier if it was written about, like, looking for a receipt for something you have to return or, like, a scrap you scribbled an important password on or something.  

I hope a few people came out and had a great time because of my articles (all of'em linked here). I never know if they make a difference, y'know? The Rickshaw could have been fuller, but at least all the seats Tim had put out were taken (closed balcony, though). You people who did not come: you missed out. Can't say I didn't try my best! 

Fuckin' "Star Power," man! Yaaah!

Ethan Miller interview: the Unknown Unknown, the Grateful Dead, and Orcutt Shelley Miller TONIGHT at the Rickshaw

Photo by Rachel Lipsitz

If you don't know if you need to be at the Rickshaw tonight, let me ask you one question: besides, say, a few Sonic Youth records, do you also have Blues for Allah in your record collection?

I think that if the answer to that is yes, you need to be there, because -- even though my Straight interviews focused on Steve Shelley; see here and here (and here) -- the secret ingredient in Orcutt-Shelley-Miller is, I think, Ethan Miller's love of the Grateful Dead, which is all over his main band these days, Howlin Rain.

Miller basically brings the 70s into play Orcutt Shelley Miller, and to my amazement, having finally heard what they're doing on their bandcamp, 70's rock is very, very relevant to this music. I mean, there's even some funky moments, courtesy Miller's basswork. Wasn't expecting THAT!!!

To be sure, I've played the press safe, because Steve Shelley is the known known here. SOME of you didn't really NEED to read a two-part interview with him to convince you to go tonight, of course, but I chose to interview him as the main feature because I figured people crave familiarity -- and we all do, a little -- and that they would be more likely to READ THE ARTICLES that way. I mean, who doesn't love Sonic Youth?   

And to stay Rumsfeldian, here, if Shelley is the known known, Bill Orcutt, for some of you, is the known unknown, the guy you know you don't understand but know you need to. Even I still feel that way and I have four of his records now! Suffice to say, he's one of these eccentric American guitar geniuses who defy categorization, and who any written description of will not do justice. There's a blues element to what he does, a spiritual element to what he does, a jazz element to what he does, and some truly gentle and subtle work, which means that if you have, like, Robbie Basho or John Fahey albums in your collection, or Loren Connors, you need to know about him; but he also has roots in No-Wave-Noise-Rock-Don't-Give-a-Fuck fearlessness; some of that Harry Pussy stuff is tougher than the toughest Fushitsusha. So with a range like that, there are mysteries yet to unravel, even if you WERE at the Pearl awhile back. Known unknown is about right. 

But for me, at least, Ethan Miller was the UNKNOWN UNKNOWN, the person I have come latest to, knew the least about, who I was emailing with to set up interviews before I had any clue what he did musically. He's the guy on the far left, here. The guy in the HOLY SHIT HE'S WEARING A WRONG T-SHIRT!!!

(Flash forward to the after-show conversation! Ethan was telling me that he Steve, and Bill were listening to Nomeansno's Wrong on the ride to Vancouver, and got to chatting about what the inspiration for the tower in "The Tower" is. I've always taken it 100% to be a reference to the Tarot card, with maybe a bit of Eye of Sauron mixed in, but Ethan was speculating that it was maybe inspired by Sutro Tower in San Francisco, which, if the moon is just right, definitely does have an Eye of Sauron quality to it. Now myself, I think this is a longshot, but it COULD be the case that there was an actual physical tower in the back of Rob's mind, besides any metaphorical or literary reference. I offered to help get to the bottom of this! More to come).  

But let us leave that future digression and leap back to the pre-show article that I was writing: Even though I still barely know what he does -- I've listened ONLY to side one of The Dharma Wheel at this point (and the Orcutt Shelley Miller album), I asked Ethan some questions via email, and he answered them. starting with a brief overview of his career:

ETHAN MILLER'S CAREER OVERVIEW: 

Comets on Fire was my first band early 2000s - chaotic noise rock, I sang and played guitar.

Howlin Rain is my '70s rock band, started mid 2000s still going - AM gold to psychedelic Dead/ Hendrix-like excursions, I sing and play guitar

Heron Oblivion 2015 to 2020 or so - noise-folk rock/ psychedelic, I called it guitar freakout Krautrock meets funeral folk - I played bass and sang backing

I have a bunch of other groups, as like Bill and Steve, I'm restless artistically, but I think these three are the biggest (most popular) and three strong foundational points that put a little background perspective on how I step to Orcutt Shelley Miller for my creative end.

If you want to dip into these three albums here are my quick pick recommendations with the context of Orcutt Shelley Miller in mind:

Comets on Fire, Blue Cathedral: https://open.spotify.com/album/2qBVJLaevQJIEhMAJBmCoR?si=elCavi-mQfGDChUQZkgrgQ

Howlin Rain, Alligator Bride: https://open.spotify.com/album/0GmQqBVnO5ZkKqW0PprGbz?si=ApR68VCCSV2J_yg8RBzt1A

Heron Oblivion, S/T: https://open.spotify.com/album/0d1GIvkfR1zTlXWow5otSd?si=S3TKxVV-REq3rIXVl8gMJQ

My record label Silver Current, which Orcutt Shelley Miller is coming out on, has also gained some notoriety in recent years with high profile archival releases by Sonic Youth and Galaxie 500 and releases by Osees, Earthless, Wooden Shjips, Howlin Rain, etc.

...So that's an informative overview Ethan has provided, but I confessed after this that I'm not a Spotify user (but had found The Dharma Wheel on a trip to Seattle. I still sketched out what I could by way of an email interview. A Q&A follows. I'm bolded in italics, Ethan's not. Long quote from Tom Carter is indented! 

Allan: I have a Dead question for you. I was reminded by some of what Bill did of Jerry Garcia's guitar theme for the hippie lovemaking in Zabriskie Point, but I also second-guessed the hell out of that. Does the Dead ever come up in conversations between you and Bill and Steve? Do you all dig the Dead?

Ethan Miller: I very much dig the Dead. I go in and out of super deep dives with them but I find it comforting to have those artists like Dylan, King Crimson, Miles Davis, Nina Simone etc within arms reach that have these endlessly explorable catalogs, deep and dark and you find new emotional spaces when you approach them at different times in your life. Dead fit that for me. I also find them to be a good reminder / example of striving for excellence and transcendence in music while abandoning all attempts at perfection, that the rough edges of your character and personality will ultimately be your greatest musical expression.

I can't remember if Steve likes the Dead. In our bio Tom Carter wrote this and I thought it might sum up a part of Bill's relationship to the Dead (though this assessment may be 3 decades old), from one of his close friend's perspectives:

TOM CARTER (Charalambides) 

I once asked Bill Orcutt if he liked the Grateful Dead, because I had a vague memory of talking about them while on tour together 30 some-odd years ago. He responded that he'd tried to crack their code in college, mostly because so many of his friends liked them, but that he could never penetrate their overwhelmingly shallow sonics and chittering conversationally. Why weren't his friends more fired up by the creeping undertow of Crazy Horse, dripping with three-chord existential menace?

Since then, I've thought about the Horse/ Dead dichotomy a lot -- especially now, listening to the debut release from Orcutt, Steve Shelley, and Ethan Miller, the closest approximation of a standard power trio that Orcutt has landed in to date. Far from the polymorphic jazz-isms of his numerous records with Chris Corsano, the landscape Orcutt Shelley Miller inhabits lies fathoms beneath the convivial Cartesian coordinates of the Dead, deep in the stoner American bedrock, fed by volcanic riffage containing multitudes.

Allan: Whoa, thanks. That's really compelling. So... What's the Sonic Youth archival release? Was that how you got into things with Steve? What's your history with Sonic Youth? (Did Comets on Fire ever share a stage with them?). Any SY stories are welcome...

Ethan Miller: Sonic Youth Live in Brooklyn 2011 was released on my record label Silver Current in summer of 2023. It was their final US show, a triumphant career spanning mega blast set list with the band in top form. The work on that record was how Steve and I came to know each other again and became closer and how our relationship tipped into music. Sonic Youth was the first big band to take my first band Comets on Fire out on the road and expose us to those bigger audiences and that world. And then Thurston took my band Heron Oblivion out with the Thurston Moore group in (2018?) or so and Steve and I had reconnected there some, that was a fun run also.

I believe the album that Comets was touring with Sonic Youth on was Murray Street, though it may likely have been Sonic Nurse with some big Murray Street numbers still spanning in the set. I remember thinking there was a Dead kind of vibe to some of that beautiful expansive space they would get into on that Texas tour, where it wasn't noisy, it was very crystalline and ethereal ~ sort of large interweaving crystal caverns you could get lost in. Being able to look very closely now at their beginnings to their end Sonic Youth are one of the most prime examples to me that if your chemistry is there in a group and the group is fearless in musical exploration you can go anywhere and it makes perfect sense and feels 'right'. Their restlessness to find the next unknown space of expression and continue to fearlessly step from 'what is working' into the unknown is one of the great band models of creativity in the history of rock and roll. No shit!

Allan: How did you first cross paths with Bill? When did you and he and Steve start to work together? (Steve probably told me some of that story too but what the heck). Do you have any rules or structure to what you do? Is there a "leader" you're supposed to follow?

Ethan: I'm not sure exactly where I first 'met' Bill but I did see some of his earliest acoustic shows as he came back on the music scene in SF in the early 2010s and I loved his playing and performance. I think he was playing rather regularly around and we ended up being on shows together, chatting a bit at gigs. Ironically to question #1, in 2019 I was tasked with being a band leader for a many-guest live tribute show of The Grateful Dead's 1969 albums Live Dead and Aoxamoxoa and I asked Bill if he would be a guest performer. He said he didn't really know the Dead but would love to. We did "Death Don't Have No Mercy" and when he took the solo he took the house down. Afterward he told me how much fun it was playing with a 'rock band,' and that he hadn't played with a bass player since high school or something. So I suggested we put together some kind of combo for him to do an outer-rock thing, reference points: all that 70s krautrock, free rock-jazz fusion, etc we were mutually into and he said he was game. I put together a backing rhythm section for a show and pandemic hit a few days before we were supposed to do it. We kept in touch a bit during the pandemic and last year I suggested we take the idea back up. I saw how creatively active Steve was, always producing, recording, releasing albums on his label, and in any down time voraciously listening to music - AND one of the greatest drummers in the history of rock music! No brainer.

Yes, there is structure and improv both in the music. We don't have a leader, musically we can hear who's leading a part at any given moment but it's not a set thing. We just use our ears the whole time.

Allan: I'm curious if the "spiritual" of free music aspect ever comes up in conversation with you and Bill and Steve. There was a time in the free jazz world, when everyone was doing acid, I think, that there was a lot of references to spirituality in improvised and avant-jazz stuff, like Coltrane's Om or some of Don Cherry's chants or, like, Maurice McIntyre or Albert Ayler or so forth... and then the Howlin' Rain album is called The Dharma Wheel, which was an immediate plus. Why The Dharma Wheel?

Ethan: I don't have much to say about other people's spirituality in music but the title of the Dharma Wheel album along with the album art is intended to be a gateway into engagement with a tangled concept but one that no one can give a definitive answer for, so that in this case a person might have a great satisfaction in experience rather than conclusion. Like the end of the film 2001, we (the audience) still all have a lot of fun and thoughtfulness and experience watching and discussing and contemplating that piece of challenging popular art and that's my favorite kind of engagement with art; the conclusion-less kind. In my experience, music is the artform that you most often don't need any context for it to set your emotions and imagination running wild as you engage with it as a listener or audience. That is a true gift of the form.

Allan: Steve tells me this is only the 12th gig or so you and he have done with Bill; how are things evolving, from show to show? Are you getting to know each other better? Are there still surprises? (It seemed to me that Bill would have surprises up his sleeve, like when he started to shout "February second" at the end of a piece...

Ethan: Yeah, of course we evolve show by show, that's natural. By the end of the last East Coast tour I felt like we'd really taken flight and were moving effortlessly, thinking and considering things less and everything moving on its own, thoughtless. That's the best. That said, the debut album in hand is our very first show and the first moments of what you hear on there are the first sounds of our first show. So I'm very proud of how well we expressed our first public sounds of music as a band and that it was of a level that we deemed it releasable, that is very singular and special in itself too.

Allan: Finally, tell me about the album's track names? Who named them? What do they mean?

Ethan: The track names? Just having fun, gently implanting little suggestive story ideas into the listeners mind, like being given only the first line of a short story and told to 'go' with it. Or at the very least a sense of absurdism when you look at the track name and listen to the music. To me there is something incredibly lonely and deflating about seeing non-track names like Song #3, or Untitled, etc. Or worse; bad, bland track names that are so forgettable that they just turn invisible even as your eyes read them. Depressing.

Thanks Allan! See ya in Vancouver!

Tickets here. Come early to see Kenton Loewen's terrific jazz unit Kneejerk, too! 

THIS IS HAPPENING TONIGHT!!!!