Jon Card 101: from Suburban Slag to Subhumans Canada, with a few stops in-between (2006 and 2008 interviews)

Jon Card at the Lamplighter, with the Subhumans, October 13th, 2006. Photo by Allan MacInnis

Being a big Subhumans fan, between the recording of New Dark Age Parade (2006) and Same Thoughts Different Day (2010), I interviewed all members of the Subhumans separately on more than one occasion. When my conversations with the band started, I had only been writing for a couple of years, so I didn't really know what I was doing, and I transcribed things I didn't ultimately use (though I skipped a few chunks here and there). Hearing the news that Jon Card had died, I went back through my old files and, lo and behold, I found two interviews with pieces not previously published; not sure where the tapes for these are -- yes, I was using a cassette recorder! -- but the portions that are transcribed should make for interesting reading. You can also read my gig report from the Lamplighter show here (the first time I saw the Subhumans, unless you count Brian and the kids who played the Vancouver Complication gig with him). There are also old features I did, using some of the material with Card here, which is a shortened version of what's below, and (tho' it's really more of a show review, of the final Subhumans gig) here. 

I didn't actually write all my questions out so, without access to the tapes, some of them have been reconstructed based on the answers ("Now what the hell had I asked him?"). You'll notice that I had no idea about Personality Crisis back in 2006 (I had only heard "Piss On You" off the BYO comp). 

Apologies to Gerry Hannah: we talk about him a bit, dig up some past history that I'm guessing he doesn't need dug up. But I was keen on that stuff back then, and it was interesting to hear Card's stories! 

Jon was a big talent and personality; my condolences to all those missing him now -- 63 is way too young. I really enjoyed these interviews and am glad I got to see Card with most of the bands mentioned below. If you've somehow missed New Dark Age Parade, it's got some amazing songs on it (and a few I am less wild about, but the best songs on it are some of the best songs the Subhumans ever wrote -- "Moving Forward," for instance...). 

AM: So how did you get started in music?

JC: Actually, I started with a junior high school band, if you want the whole story. I started piano then oboe. But I got braces, and they needed a drummer... [I did not transcribe all of Jon's answer]. My first real band was Plasticine; we changed our name to Suburban Slag [soon to be the subject of a Supreme Echo reissue!] then saw Personality Crisis play in Calgary. And they were from Winnipeg and they said from the stage, hey our drummer’s quitting, anyone wanna -- just kinda half-kidding, right? Boom, three weeks later, I show up in Winnipeg. “Here I am.” That was the first real good band I was in. I don’t know if you’ve heard of them. It was a really, really great band, actually 

AM: I don't know them well. I know "Piss On You." [note: along with the Pointed Sticks and the Modernettes, this is one of many Canadian bands reissued on Porterhouse]

JC: We did a record on Risky Records, San Francisco, and we toured – I went down and that’s when I first kinda hooked up first with Jello Biafra, played with – oh hell, it was just like a dream come true, right 20 year old kid down there...! Our first show was playing with FEAR the Elite Club, which is the old Filmore West. Y’know, I’m just goin’ wow... This guy had connections, the record label guy, at that point we got the prime slots right before the headliner. We played with Circle Jerks, Bad Brains, Dead Kennedys, Minor Threat, you name it, right.

AM: When was this?

JC: In about 82, 83, it was when our record came out, it was called Creatures for Awhile; it came out in 83.

AM: Around the time the Subs were breaking up.

JC: Yeah. My first band I ever played with, Suburban Slag, we used to rehearse in my parents basement, that whole thing, right? And we got kicked out, so we ended up rehearsing in school parking lots, because like people plug in their block heaters in Calgary – it’s real cold – so we rehearsed outside and that was kinda fun...but we played with the Subhumans at the old Calgarian hotel, that was where I met them. I was a huge fan. So that was my first connection with the Subhumans.

AM: Was Brian your entry point into DOA?

JC: Yeah, we were in the band together, before then and during then and even now. He’s one of my best friends, so that’s kinda cool. DOA is the first time we played music together. We actually played in the Deadcats together, and a few other projects, like Linda McCrae... Brian and I kinda have done a lot of stuff together, uh, the old rhythm section – the Card /Goble rhythm section, we call it.

AM: I didn't know you were in the Deadcats! 

JC: I was in and out of the band a bunch of times and Brian was in for a stint, 'cos I just went, come on, let’s throw a bass in here, the gutbucket’s cool, but... so he did about 15 gigs with us.

AM: Speaking of bass, I just was speaking  with Gerry. Jeez, that guy can talk! 

JC: Tell me about it! At rehearsal – we play a song and then it’s like Gerry’s oratory for 10-15 minutes on whatever, right?... The guy’s got it – the gab! It’s funny.

AM: It's such an extreme contrast with Mike Graham, who is one of most reluctant interviews I've done...

JC: Even getting some volume out of him is tough, but his guitar playing and songwriting is the total opposite, he just rips.

Mike Graham by Allan MacInnis, Lamplighter 2006

AM: You have a take on Warren Kinsella's animosity towards Gerry? 

JC: Yeah, it seems like he’s drawing more attention to himself than anything else. He’s a – I knew him back when he was in the Hot Nasties. I don’t know if I ever played a gig with him in my first punk band, but I saw them play, they saw us play, and even back then there was divisions amongst the punk scene, and no one liked the Hot Nasties and no one liked Warren Kinsella, for obvious reasons. He’s a prick!

AM: One does get that impression. 

JC: Yeah, I saw him perform a couple of times. Actually, one time they played with 999, I think it was, and the Dickies were supposed to open up, which would’ve been awesome. Everyone wanted to see the Dickies and 999, but the Dickies couldn’t get across the border or something like that, and  his band the Hot Nasties they went and played under a different name, and you’ve never seen so much abuse thrown at a band, it was quite something... And he was just like wallowing in it, like YES, I created punk rock kinda attitude kinda thing.

AM: [I ask something about Warren's more slanderous characterizations of Gerry]

JC: Yeah... He had a small little faction – his band and some of his mates... but I didn’t hang out with them much. We talked and stuff like that but he was just a little too condescending, for me – y’know, I’m not gonna sit here and badmouth him or anything like that, he’s never done anything to me, but that’s bullshit.

AM: You had some history with the Five, right?  

JC: Well I was actually – it’s kinda funny. I was living in Vancouver on and off at the time, and I was living in a house at the plaza, the restaurant next door was bugged, the house was probably bugged. I’m probably on tape with the RCMP back then – definitely I am – and, y’know, Ken Lester was living there and a friend of mine was living there and he was making the bumper stickers “REFUSE THE CRUISE” and all that stuff, right, so I was kinda in there hanging out with their staunch supporters, kinda thing...

This was before the arrest and during the arrest, actually, it was like when it was all happening and it was – I remember a CBC Helicopter. I was sleepin’ on the couch and I look out the window and there’s a helicopter with a camera and I’m sitting there waving at it, and it was the CBC news! I was kinda there and my opinion of it... I think goin’ as far as taking down a Brinks truck, that’s over the line, y’know, in my opinion, but they were doing what they believed in, and right or wrong, that stands for something. Jeez, I don’t know what I can say. I was hanging out with all their supporters so I was just kinda goin’ along... and I didn’t know anyone with Gerry at the time, and I can’t say I was friends with him or anything like that, and I really didn’t really know a whole lot about what they were doing, I just knew the big things like the Litton bombing, why they did it. At that point I didn’t know that anyone got hurt or anything like that, so I said, if these guys are doing something and taking on the big war machine in pieces, I think that’s kinda cool, but I’m not in for terrorizing other people or hurting other people, and the Brinks truck – that’s over the top...

AM: Were you politically active?  

JC: I was a little bit of an activist, being in DOA ... I expressed my opinions on lots of things, and I wasn’t exactly on the same page as say, Dave Gregg or Joey, but a lot of times we agreed. But I was a bit of an activist, cos I played a lot of benefits for a lot of these things, and that was sort of my part – “I’ll give up my time musically if I believe in what these people are fighting for.” And if I don’t, then count me out, kind of thing, so obviously I played a lot of benefits for a lot of different things, Amnesty, you name it, all the way down the line.

AM: Any causes in particular you remember?

JC: You couldn’t buy really cold beer anywhere in them days... [laughs]. Nah, I just... I wasn’t really prepared for bringing this down, I’d actually have to sit down and think. Like Gerry, he can press a button and boom, he can go, but I’d have to actually sit down and think about it.

Gerry Hannah at the Lamplighter, 2006

AM: Were you writing songs? 

JC: Yeah, I wrote with Personality Crisis, I wrote some with SNFU. With DOA, it’s tough getting in there with Joey’s songwriting. Brian was allowed to write a few songs. But I’m more of an arranger. I help to arrange, accent... I help with dynamics, even introducing a different time signature to DOA, that was kinda fun one time, cos like I say I can read charts and all that stuff – which I throw aside, because I just play by ear and with my heart. So yeah, I’ve written some songs, but with the Subhumans, just music, arranging on this album [New Dark Age Parade].

AM: Did you do any other Subhumans songs besides "Fuck You" with DOA? 

JC: We did "Slave to my Dick," those two.

AM: So you know those two from before.

JC: Oh, yeah. Slightly different arrangements. And actually, we did another Mike Graham song, "Behind the Smile." That was for a movie (Terminal City Ricochet). DOA recorded their version of it, which I think was a pretty good version. We did that and "No Productivity." We were on that soundtrack, so there’s a couple more Subhumans songs. I think we did them live, maybe, a couple of times, but "Slave to my Dick" and "Fuck You" were some of the big closers for DOA at that time, they just happened to be Subhumans songs.

AM: Do you have favourite Subhumans songs? 

JC: Oh, shit, I like a whole bunch of them. I’m really happy to be playing them. Those guys say they’re a little sick of the back catalogue, me I’m just laughin’ it up, I love playin’ this shit, right. I like "Inquisition Day," that’s fun to play, it’s real simple. Some of the new stuff is great to play. It’s my drum part, that’s kind of nice. I tip my hat to Jim Imagawa and Randy Bowman. I play the songs close to what especially Jim did, and then I’ll throw my own little flavour in there, so... I like what he did. “Urban Guerrillas” is actually a fun song to play. “Fuck You’s" always fun, it’s a crowd pleaser. I like ‘em all!

AM: Can we talk about the mix of personalities in the band?

JC:  Well, like I said, Brian, he’s a close friend, so I know Brian very well, we’re tight as friends. You said it. Mike’s really quiet, his sense of humour – he’s got a sense of humour going, he’s got a good sense of humour, and Gerry, you nailed it too, the guy’s a machine. There’s different personalities, and, um, we’re on the same page in a lot of places and in a lot of places we’re not, so it’ll be an interesting tour. It’s not a very long one. We’ve already done a little short stuff and it was fine travelling, no problem. 

 

Brian bursts from Gerry's chest

AM: Any hopes for future tours?

JC: Obviously with Gerry’s record, he’s not going to be going to the states, I don’t think, ever. He might be able to get a pardon. There’s an opportunity, possibly... The Pointed Sticks just went to Japan, and one of the bands that opened for them, one of the shows, they’re doing cover songs of old Vancouver punk bands – the Subhumans, Tim Ray...

AM: Yeah! Liquid Screen. Where did you hear about this?

JC: I know Nick really well. I’m in Frank Frink with him...

AM: Oh, of course, right. What Subhumans songs were Liquid Screen covering? 

JC: Shit, they told me and I can’t remember, but I thought that was really cool, so I’d like to see Joey on Sudden Death put out the reissue Subhumans stuff, but I think it’s already been promised to G7. So um, I think he had the connection with that. I could be wrong, I don’t know. But that would be fun, but Gerry’s gonna have to go out and get pardoned, if he’s going to go anywhere. We’ve talked about this before and it sucked, but we’re gonna have to get another bass player, if we’re gonna go play the States.

AM: Will we see any alumni at the upcoming Vancouver show? [This question is a hail-mary reconstruction; I'm actually not sure which show we were talking about]. 

JC: Jim I’m not sure about. He was asked to do this, and he wasn’t into it. Randy Bowman, he’s a really good friend of mine as well, he’s been in a ton of bands and he’s working, he’s got a kid, and he’s playing in the BTUs and, uh... he’s in a couple of bands. He’s still drumming, he’s a good pal. We hang out. I went to his birthday party last year, so... I don’t think he was asked. I don’t know, don’t quote me on that. [I didn't, at the time, but we're almost 20 years later, so...]

AM: Any past history with Dimwit we should talk about?

JC: Oh yeah, sure. Great drummer. I’m actually using the old Dimwit drumkit. When he was in DOA he had got another kit, took his kit for sale at drums only. I went in, and it’s a gorgeous Milestone kit, a custom kit, so that’s kind of neat, the original drummer, I’m using his kit. I’m actually friends with his brother, Bob Montgomery, and then I know Biscuits too, of course. Yeah, Dimwit, great drummer. I enjoyed his company. He was in Frank Frink too.

AM: I'm not clear on the timelines -- did you replace him in DOA after he died? Was that when you came on board?

JC: He was actually still alive when he left DOA, he was in the Four Horsemen, and they were doing actually quite well, they had just signed a new record deal and everything looked just awesome, and since then, he passed on and the singer was in a motorcycle accident and I don’t think he’s living either. So Dimwit died. They had a guy named Kerr Belliveau (as drummer) for a very short point, I came out, I left SNFU, and then Kerr was a drummer for a month, maybe three weeks. They were working on True North Strong and Free and they asked me to join, so they let Kerr go. He’s a friend too, he’s a good drummer and stuff, but I guess I would’ve fit the bill cos I was a better hockey player, I dunno.

AM: How many times have you toured across Canada?

JC: Lost count. 20. More. I dunno. I like touring, y’know. You gotta get a good vehicle, all right, so you’re not worried about it breakin’ down. I could go on for hours about DOA stories and stuff (laughs). But I enjoy touring. Playing to a different crowd every night, meetin’ new people...Personally I like to play every gig like it’s my last one, which it could be, people drop all the time, right, so I like to go out and put on a really good show and have my fun onstage and get the job done and have some fun offstage too.

AM: It must be fun touring through Calgary. 

JC: Oh yeah. I had a big Jon Card support group there when we played last year. It was great seein’ some old friends and we played a sold out show and I’m sure it’ll be the same this time around, too. I don’t know if Warren’s gonna show up, but I’ll say hi from you.

AM: Speaking of the Pointed Sticks, do you ever tour through Japan, these days, or tour other places?You played Germany with DOA, right? 

JC: I’ve been to Europe with DOA and been through every state several times with DOA and Personality Crisis and SNFU. For awhile there I was coming through town with a new band just about every second year. I felt like a real drum slut or hired gun. But I was really fortunate playing in a lot of good bands.

I was born in Germany, so it was very cool when I went back and played there. It was an air force deal, I was born in Zweibrücken and lived in Kaiserslautern, so yeah, I’ve been to Europe with DOA, haven’t been to Japan.

AM: Any insight into what it would take for Gerry to tour Japan?

JC: Apparently there’s this process to do this, but apparently he has to go to the Japanese embassy, say look, I did my time, I’m very sorry, dadadadah, I don’t know what he has to say, and it’s up to them. Even without Gerry, I’d love to go there and actually I talked to Fat Mike from NOFX and he thought that would be a pretty cool idea, because he was a Subhumans fan back in the day and now, and it’s funny, because he knows the other Subhumans from England and I think they actually have a record on their label, so it’s weird. We might do a gig, Subhumans vs the Subhumans, do a show together sometime. [None of that ever happened, note. END INTERVIEW ONE!]

 
Jon Card Interview #2: August 17 2008: This interview took place shortly after a North Vancouver gig, which I was at, also featuring the Rebel Spell. After the show, I had a conversation with Mike, Brian, and Gerry in the parking lot at Seylynn; at one point, Jon -- who was waiting for the guys in the band's vehicle -- chucked a beer can at us: not in a "trying to hit us" kinda way, but an impatient, "come-on-let's-go" kind of way. He might have had a few? 

The thing was, I would have been HAPPY to have had Jon on tape during that conversation. Maybe one of the other members had asked him to stand down, but it seems more likely that Jon just figured he wasn't welcome -- that maybe he thought I only wanted to talk only to founding members? But I regarded him as a real member of the Subhumans, at that point, even if he wasn't one of the original guys. So the following, chunks of which ran in The Skinny, was meant to compensate for that, in case he had felt like he was being excluded. Chris Walter's book on Personality Crisis was just coming out around then, and there was a booklaunch at the Cobalt (the last time I saw the Subhumans there, I think). 

AM: Tell me about the first time you saw the Subhumans?

JC: I was a huge Subhumans fan, and I’d been going down to the Calgarian to catch punk acts from out of town and locally. We [Suburban Slag] had played there before, but Subhumans were coming, and I made sure I went down and talked to the owner and said, ‘We have to get on this bill.’ I went down during the day and I met Wimpy and Gerry; I don’t know if I hung out with Jim Imagawa much, but I hung out in their hotel room and I got to meet the guys in the Subhumans and I was thrilled, and smoked a bunch of black hash with them, and then we ended up playing... I can’t remember how many nights we played with them, but it was their slot at the Calgarian and we backed them up. That was great. Cable 10 Calgary came down and they were doing punk acts. I don’t know if they did Suburban Slag or not - they didn’t air it, but they aired the Subhumans. I got a copy of that, and it’s actually pretty good sound quality and everything - the original Subhumans playing at the Calgarian. Brian’s got a copy of it, and I’ve got a copy of it somewhere. [Actually someone has put the show on Youtube]

AM: So you joined Personality Crisis after a gig at the Calgarian?

JC: Yep, it was after that. I don’t know what they say in the book. I got there late, and I only ended up seeing Personality Crisis, either half a set, or one and a half sets. I can’t really remember, but they were a great band. They were different from anything I’d seen at the Calgarian. And then from the stage I heard Mitch say, ‘yeah, we’re lookin’ for a drummer!’ At that point, I had real shitty job, and I did not like my job and I wanted to play music. I figured, ‘Hey, I like this band, and if they really need a drummer, I’m willing to pack up my little Mustang, throw my drums in the back, and drive to Winnipeg.' So I gave’em a copy of the Suburban Slag demo tape, talked to them briefly. Later on, I sort of hurt myself at work - I actually semi-blinded myself with some lime. I was mixing plaster, and POOM it shot up into my eye, and I went, ‘This job REALLY sucks, now.’ And then it happens that that night, Mitch phones me and goes, ‘Yeah, we’re still looking for a drummer. And I said, ‘Yeah, I’ll come out.’ He didn’t think I was gonna come out - I was, like, 19 years old or something like that - so I just said, ‘I’m going out.’ I loaded up my car and drove out there, and lo and behold - I was there, and we rehearsed, and it worked. That was the first real good band I was in. It was a really, really great band, actually. From there, I went on to SNFU, to DOA, and then a bunch of bands, and the Subhumans now.

We actually based ourselves out of Calgary for awhile. Richard left - he was our bass player. He ended up being the guitar player later.

AM: Thoughts on Chris Walter? You knew him from Winnipeg, right?

JC: Yeah, he was totally into the punk scene, and so was I. He was in the Vacant Lot, I think his band was at that time, with his brother Jamie - he’s a good friend, too. So I hung out with Chris back then, experimented with different substances, and drank a lot of beer. I always liked Chris... He hasn’t changed that much, it’s really weird: he’s clean, but some people on/ off drugs are essentially the same person. Unless you’re freaking out trying to get money for drugs; that’s a different story...

AM: It surprises me a little that even though he's clean, Chris seems totally comfortable hanging out around the Cobalt and such. Wouldn’t most people who get off booze and hard drugs want to distance themselves as much as possible from their old habits and haunts? 

JC: You can’t understand why, because you haven’t done it, but - I’ve done lots of drugs, too, and I work right in the middle of the downtown eastside. I work the night shift, three nights a week, twelve hour shifts, in a nine-bed care facility, and it’s me and a nurse, and people who are just out of the hospital, but not well enough to go home. They’re being treated with antibiotics, fighting infection. This is ninety five percent of them. I manage the place and do everything the nurses don’t do - serving them, giving them meals, keeping the place clean. If people need housing, we find housing for them. And one hundred percent of the people are there because of drugs, and are using drugs while they’re there. I’m around it all the time. It takes awhile, but once you get past certain urges, and physical and psychological needs, and get your head around what you’re doing, it almost gives you strength, in some ways, to be around it. I’m speaking for myself - I can’t really speak for Chris.

AM: So tell me about your work there; what do you and Brian do? Does it relate to getting people off drugs, or...?

JC: What we do is damage control. The person, if they’re going to get off it, they have to be ready to do it. They can’t be forced to do it, unless they do it like they do in Iran - they throw their army guys who are hooked on it in a hole and make them kick. But someone’s got to be ready to do it, and if they’re they’re ready, there are facilities out there for them. There are detoxes and rehab centers. 

But basically a lot of it is damage control: ‘okay, you’re going to be using, so let’s just try to keep you with clean utensils, so you’re not passing on HIV or whatever, you’re not using rusty needles - keeping you alive. So you you don’t have to shoot up behind a Smithrite, you can go into a clean facility. As far as getting people off it, there are facilities, but people have to make the decision themselves.

AM: What can readers do to help people in that situation?

JC: Have an open mind. Just have an open mind.

AM: There must be a fair bit of burnout in the  job. 

JC: Depending on where I’m working - I’ve worked at the Portland Hotel, the Washington, the Sunrise, the Regal, Jackson, CTCT(?) - it can be stressful. Depending on where you work, and what happens on your shift - you’re getting yelled at and being called all sorts of names by people who you’re actually helping. It gets a little frustrating, at times. You gotta have a sense of humour, and you gotta have some compassion going for you. I’ve felt very stressed out after some shifts, definitely. I used to work a lot, though. Like, right now I’m on fulltime, so I’m only allowed to work X number of hours. That’s to help people not get stressed out, of course. But I haven’t taken any sick days in a year and a half, personally, so it seems to be working for me. But yeah, at the end of three days, I’m ready for a break, definitely.

AM: Do you and Brian compare notes much?

JC: Usually the day before I’m coming in, I’ll phone up and go, ‘hey, what’s happening,’ which is great, because I know Brian really well and he can totally give me ‘the skinny’ on what’s going on: if we’ve got new people in, if people have been discharged, if there’s been a fight. And when we get together, work always comes up... There’s so many people who need help, especially in the mental health area. There’s not enough beds - not even close! It’s insane. There’s just not the money or resources, and the Olympics coming up is a perfect example of money being misused. 

One example: I was with the Frank Frink Five playing a wedding a few weeks ago, and I ended up meeting a woman who works for Strathcona Mental Health. She was interviewing over one hundred people, and there’s only four beds in this facility - four beds for a hundred people! And these are for the people who are actually seeking help; there’s so many who aren’t. Even the safe injection site... a lot of people go, ‘Oh, they’re basically just helping the drug users,’ but they don’t realize what the nurses do down there. People downtown have so many different skin conditions - they have so many different afflictions, and their legs are basically rotting off their bodies. So the nurses do dressing changes on wounds. If they stopped what they were doing, maybe one tenth of the people would get help. These people would have to go to walk-in clinics and wait hours and hours to get help, and possibly get it, possibly not. You get some people that are coming in that are completely abusing the system and they don’t follow the rules and they’re not really being compliant, at all. But generally people are; they’re getting their treatments, and they don’t want to lose their leg or whatever the case may be. Just about every shift, I get a ‘hey man, thanks a lot for what you’re doing.’

AM: Brian talks about it a bit in "People of the Plague." [Note: there's a clip of the band playing this at Pub 340 where I'm clearly visible, in my old Subhumans shirt (see the bald guy on the right, below). This was the gig where Gerry dedicated "Moving Forward" to me (I'd griped that someone should force Brian to learn the lyrics to that one, which are a mouthful]. He calls it the curse of "rotting feet." Chris calls it "street feet." That's an amazing song. 

JC: Great song. I love playing that, and the lyrics are just fantastic.

AM: If we could talk about DOA for a second, any memories from the "Takin' Care of Business" video shoot? 

JC: That was fucking fun, getting to hang out with Randy and hear his stories - who else has Randy Bachman as your hockey coach, and you take on the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse and win the game? [The gig portions of the video shoot were at the old Boy’s Club, where original Subhumans (and later DOA drummer) Ken “Dimwit” Montgomery used to live] then the hockey was at Britannia. We had a guy with a camera skating around in a wheelchair, so we could get some of the follow shots and stuff” [apparently also a technique lifted from the movie Slapshot]. The stick down the team, we definitely lifted that from Slapshot, too. The old milkjug, which represented the Stanley Cup, just happened to be in the room. I picked it up and started shaking it and we passed it around. Beer went flying, and Randy got soaked... He was such a great sport, such a great guy to work with.

AM: Hockey was one of the selling points on getting you to leave SNFU and join DOA, right? 

JC: Yes. I play hockey, and they had a team, the Murder Squad, and we ended up playing lots of games. We played CFOX, and some other radio stations and newspapers, and raised money for the food bank. One time, we had over two hundred people in the crowd, totally supporting us - we were like the home team, playing CFOX, and Bruce Allen was their coach. They were losing this game - we ended up winning all the games except one against CFOX. Anyhow, Bruce had ‘Bruce Allen Talent Agencies,’ right? So the crowd started chanting ‘Bruce Allen - Get Some Talent!’ ...I think it was Art Bergmann who actually started it, and he was with Bruce Allen at the time. Bruce Allen has this little baldspot on the top of his head and someone who was in the stands told me, it started getting redder and redder...

AM: Am I correct that you did a brief return stint with DOA last year? 

JC: The Subhumans weren’t doing anything, and Joe phoned me up. It was a blast. The songs came back really fast, and it brought back a lot of really good memories, and Joey and I had time to - I won’t say kiss and make up, but he actually apologized for the way a few things came out in the book [I, Shithead] and a few other things: it was all water under the bridge, and we shook and had a great time.

AM: I know we've talked about it before, but tell me a bit more about Dimwit's kit?

JC: This is a beautiful kit - it’s a Milestone kit with Rogers and Ludwig hardware, so it’s basically custom-made. Dimwit had several different drumkits, and this one was one of the coolest; he ended up trading this one in at Drums Only. When I joined DOA, I had this Ludwig set. It was a great set of drums, but they were smaller drums; it had a 22” bass drum, and I wanted a 24. Instead of a 16” floor tom, I wanted an 18. I wanted bigger tubs for DOA: big band, big guys, big drums, this is what Joe was saying, and I went along with that. We went into Drums Only, and I see this silver sparkle Milestone kit, and it ends up being Dimwit’s old kit. Boom - I grabbed it. It has a great history, and now it’s been with me for a long time [over twenty years]. Let’s just say it’s seen a lot of blood, sweat and tears!

AM: A final question. The Subhumans are re-recording a song you wrote for Personality Crisis, "Piss on You," for a BYO compilation, right? Tell me about that? 

JC: We changed the song around a little bit, added a chorus at the end, and everything turned out cool. There’s actually triangle on the song now. It’s to represent the tinkle.

...and that's it. RIP, Jon Card! say hi to Brian if you see him...